So You’re Not Desirable • Hacker News Board

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#101

Post by FD3SA » Sun, May 18, 2014, 2:29 PM UTC

cpr wrote: post #80

Dewie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

evo-psych needs studies? It seems more that the armchair evo-psych people have just decided on a set of axioms beforehand that sound sufficiently "common sense" and are making deductions based on that.

Evo-* people have always pretty much relied on "just-so" stories. Evolutionary biologists who claim that feathers evolved from scales by snakes jumping off trees for millions of years are falling into the same trap.

And thus evolutions is of course false by your perfect mathematical deduction?

I recommend you broaden your understanding of science. Scientific hypotheses are always one iteration in a series of increasingly accurate models of the known universe. Evolution, being a very young science, is understandably very far behind Physics in its life cycle. This does not mean that all evolutionary theory is "nonsense" because it cannot be instantly falsified with a perfectly designed experiment in real time.

The beauty of evolution, just like any other law of the universe, is that it does not care much for one's disbelief.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#102

Post by enimodas » Sun, May 18, 2014, 2:31 PM UTC

JacksonGariety wrote: post #61

personlurking wrote: post #46

I spent my teens and 20s working hard on my uniqueness out of a feeling that I was different. I forced myself to like anything that was out of the ordinary (this manifested itself in attaching myself to any concepts, interests, and preferences that were non-American). I allowed my search to be different to overtake me, making me a bit of a vagabond, more interested in exploration than in work (discovery-oriented rath…

Hey, could I chat with you be email? My address is on my HN profile.

You have to put your email address in the about section, the email field is for "Please put a valid address in the email field, or we won't be able to send you a new password if you forget yours. Your address is only visible to you and us. Crawlers and other users can't see it."

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#103

Post by dTal » Sun, May 18, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

Dewie wrote: post #56

Romance is funny. On one hand, people believe in some intrinsic uniqueness in people that make a few of them destined to be their "soul mate". This is purely a matter of being-who-you-are, which can't be measured as objectively good or bad, but is perfect for the few that are your destined "soul mates" (some people won't call it 'soul mate' or have such a mystical aura around it, but may believe in the same thing jus…

>There is nothing like this league-stuff for friendships

There is, and it's the same league: social status. It's just not as rigid because we typically have multiple friends, so the effect of one lower status friend is diluted. In general though, we try to maximise the average status of our friends (or at least try and match our own self-perceived status) just as with our mates.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#104

Post by FD3SA » Sun, May 18, 2014, 2:56 PM UTC

The most interesting aspect of the modern mating paradigm is the opportunity costs associated with mate-seeking behavior, and the impacts on successful societies.

Most primate societies are focused on mating and survival, without much surplus effort remaining for any other tasks. Humans, by virtue of technology and social engineering, have gained a rare ability to dedicate an incredible amount of time to creating heretofore unfathomable works of the imagination such as science, engineering, art, music and literature.

Though many believe this was natural progression, there still exist a few human societies that are effectively hunter gatherers, and expend little energy in advancing their societies technologically. The trillion dollar question is this: what role do mating paradigms play in determining societal structure?

My own hypothesis, and one shared by a surprising number of old scholars, is that mating paradigms are a fundamental determinant of societal structure.

There is a very strong correlation in history between societies that practised very strict mating policies and those that are considered successful. In fact, it seems increasingly likely that the purpose of strict religious practices was to tightly control the mating marketplace in order to prevent the devastating opportunity costs associated with a no holds barred mating market.

As such, I'm interested where the increasingly liberal sexual marketplace will lead societies. Men who spend too much of their time creating wonderful works of art, but fail to reproduce, will be unsuccessful in the long run. Many born in this day and age believe modern civilization has always existed, and will always continue. However, as many countries around the world demonstrate, advanced civilization is an extremely unstable equilibrium. A perturbation of even one pillar can have disastrous, irreversible consequences.

We live in interesting times.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#105

Post by wsc981 » Sun, May 18, 2014, 3:01 PM UTC

huherto wrote: post #93

_random_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Having a baby for a woman is very costly. She needs someone to protect her while it happens and to help raise the child." UK has a generous protection for single mother and it completely messed up traditional marriage institution.

You are probably being down voted for the political/ideological implications of your comment. But your are pointing to a very interesting phenomena that is worth understanding. I ideologically favor having a strong social safety net. But we do need to understand what are the unintended consequences.

I agree with both of you. A social safety net that is "too strong" seems to undermine social cohesion, since the state takes over what used to be communal responsibilities.

Of course, in the long term this will also affect romantic relationships.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#106

Post by aragot » Sun, May 18, 2014, 3:07 PM UTC

Udo wrote: post #63

The article makes a good case for "when they get to know you, some of them will fall for you." When I was still young and at least somewhat cute, I remarked to a friend how depressing it was that women always go for rich and arrogant men. My friend's reply absolutely changed my perspective on this: by choosing socially well-accepted and successful men they actually place a lot more emphasis on the inner values than m…

> opt out of everything

I've switched to the gay side, out of equal (physical) interest for both genders. Dating criteria are much more "on demand" depending on the way you search for people, so it's hard to generalize. I can still say that in the gay subset, you can find people with balanced interests for who you are, how you look like, your experience, how much you earn and what you live for.

In comparison, girls I have found in my native country are unevenly balanced towards social validation and wage. Plus a big burden of cross-sex relationships is gender-equality-in-the-couple challenges, so I could really say that I've opted to the gay side for the peace of mind.

Quitting the maintstream race, and find your own balance of criteria, may do you good.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#107

Post by EGreg » Sun, May 18, 2014, 3:19 PM UTC

Udo wrote: post #83

BugBrother wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to put in another viewpoint here. How a woman looks decide who I [try to] talk to, but a good sense of humor, intelligence and cool personality will change my "target" quickly. From what I've seen, this is not unusual for men. (And probably the same goes for women too, I wish I had anecdotal evidence that my "good" sense of humor worked wonders. :-) ) Edit: Other people below said similar things. Edit 2: How l…

> From what I've seen, this is not unusual for men. Yes, I agree with everything you said. Of course the implication here is that it's different for women. Which may well be the case. Anecdotal evidence on my part seems to suggest that men are prone to add exceptions to their filter in order to let people in, whereas women overwhelmingly tend to only restrict their results further. In the end, this all might be expla…

Why is it mathematically absurd? Women have a smaller reproductive window than men. This includes periods which take a full 25% of the reproductive time. Men are available all the time.

Women also bear a higher cost and greater investment in sex. So once again they are more selective. This creates greater competition among males for females than the other way around. Sure, the top guys have women competing for them but a much greater percentage of women have men competing for THEIR sex.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#108

Post by greggman » Sun, May 18, 2014, 3:21 PM UTC

quasque wrote: post #78

greggman wrote: post #12

I'm not sure how this is helpful. I've known I'm personally more attracted to personality than looks. That's not the problem. The problem is it's hard (at least for me) to get the opportunity to be around members of the opposite sex long enough for them to see my "uniqueness" Personal examples. My last job of 5 years had 100 people on my floor only 2 of which were women. My friends are generally all geeks who have no…

That sounds like a painfully abnormal work environment. Not even considering dating opportunities here - spending most of your waking time in an almost entirely male domain for so many years seems torturous, like some kind of prison experience. Maybe it's time to look for a different job, with a more gender-balanced workforce? Five years is a long time to work in one place anyway.

Hmm, I've worked at 9 tech companies. Only one of those 9 had any reasonable number of women in the product development department and generally other departments didn't socialize with product development.

I don't think changing jobs is going to fix that. Possibly changing careers but that's not really my desire.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#109

Post by lclarkmichalek » Sun, May 18, 2014, 3:22 PM UTC

_random_ wrote: post #87

Noxchi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true, and it's caused for evolutionary reasons. When people have sex, the woman is in a much more dangerous place than a man. Having a baby for a woman is very costly. She needs someone to protect her while it happens and to help raise the child. The cost for a man is very low. He only needs a couple minutes to do his part in making a baby, then he can leave at any time. So with that in mind, lets say the scena…

"Having a baby for a woman is very costly. She needs someone to protect her while it happens and to help raise the child." UK has a generous protection for single mother and it completely messed up traditional marriage institution.

And thank god it did. I'd rather live in a world with more single mothers and fewer dysfunctional/abusive/generally suboptimal relationships.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#110

Post by fallinghawks » Sun, May 18, 2014, 3:29 PM UTC

dubfan wrote: post #39

Blackthorn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you need to do is go somewhere where women exist. Find extracurricular activities that tend to skew heavily towards women, and see if any such activities interest you!

I've always thought that women didn't go to extracurricular activities to find dates, and only men do this. I'd like to be told I'm wrong, but my experiences show otherwise. Of course I do live in a west coast city infamous for its gender imbalance and the associated mentalities that go along with that.

I'd like to say you are wrong, but it's possible we are in different west coast cities. Meetups where I am (SF area) are pretty well populated with single women looking a mate or at least new friends. You may have to go outside your comfort zone to attend meetups that women are more likely to go to.

My personal experiences with this: you'll find a good gender balance in groups for going trail hiking, especially with their dogs because everyone loves dogs and sometimes people have dogs because they are single. :) Wine tasting groups generally have more women. Movie watching groups have slightly more women. JQuery meetups have nearly no women. :)