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An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

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Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#101

Post by bananas »

pjmlp wrote: post #91
bananas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a lot of J2ME stuff a few years ago and you're spot on. I spent two weeks doing Java 8 bits with NetBeans which was really nice and spent the last two evenings writing my first Android app and what a complete mess it is. Plus the Android tooling is horrible to get working reliably - most problems being solved by "restart eclipse". Late edit: perhaps Oracle should make a phone ;)

I also did some J2ME stuff back in 2003, most with Sharp and Nokia devices. I read somewhere that some in the Android team are C converts doing their first Java gig. Have you seen how broken are the generated Renderscript bindings? They don't have anything to do with Java conventions and feel completely out of place.

Haven't looked at render script yet. Still scratching head on the layout engine stuff and View infrastructure. It's fugly. I usually write C#+WPF and C++/Qt and HTML/Java EE and all of those are massively nicer to deal with.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#102

Post by pjmlp »

higherpurpose wrote: post #81
cpprototypes wrote: post #29

I like the changes in Java 8, but I'm concerned about Java fragmentation between Oracle/OpenJDK and Android. It seems Android is stuck on Java 1.6 (since Dalvik is not "true Java" and is more like a VM that happens to implement a language very similar to Java 1.6). There's now a huge gap between 1.6 and 1.8. It's not just syntax like lambda and default methods. It's also the supporting API changes in collections (str…

Especially since Google hasn't updated its Java language much lately. I think the solution for Google is to deprecate Java and start using Go. That would solve more than one problem for them.

Back when I was initially impressed by Go before the 1.0 release, I created a ticket for Go on Android, which is still open.

I doubt it will ever happen.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#103

Post by bananas »

pjmlp wrote: post #99
bananas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a lot of J2ME stuff a few years ago and you're spot on. I spent two weeks doing Java 8 bits with NetBeans which was really nice and spent the last two evenings writing my first Android app and what a complete mess it is. Plus the Android tooling is horrible to get working reliably - most problems being solved by "restart eclipse". Late edit: perhaps Oracle should make a phone ;)

> Late edit: perhaps Oracle should make a phone ;) They did an open spec tablet with a raspberry pi tough. https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/DukePad

Chuck a GSM module in it and done :)

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#104

Post by revscat »

pjmlp wrote: post #84
tieTYT wrote: post #50

> But the modern Java developer uses Gradle I'm a little skeptical of this. More like the developer in the future uses Gradle. Usually when I go to a project's home page, I see documentation on how to include the Maven dependency, not the Gradle dependency. It's pretty obvious how to convert one format to the other, but my point is I think most people are using Maven.

Gradle is mainly being pushed by Grails and Android development. I don't know of any other project using it. We are always doing Maven or Ant. If Gradle is the future I hope it gets improved, I gave up on Android Studio given its dependency on Gradle and how it drags my dual core with 8 GB to its knees when compiling.

Southwest Airlines uses it.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#105

Post by smrtinsert »

tieTYT wrote: post #50

> But the modern Java developer uses Gradle I'm a little skeptical of this. More like the developer in the future uses Gradle. Usually when I go to a project's home page, I see documentation on how to include the Maven dependency, not the Gradle dependency. It's pretty obvious how to convert one format to the other, but my point is I think most people are using Maven.

There are no winners in the build war despite the overwhelming online support for Gradle. Personally I'm not a fan of it. I find it on the slow side even compared to maven. I'd rather have declarative builds like Ant but therefore support better tooling than super freeform tools like Gradle that force you to drop into a language with about as much type safety as Javascript. Multi-project builds are also annoying, as Gradle has to parse and validate all the connected projects before proceeding with one single task on the build you're invoking due to its design. Very annoying stuff.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#106

Post by pjmlp »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #24
ryanobjc wrote: post #10

A lot of people love to hate on Java, but it's a surprisingly dynamic language and there is a ton of great testing, networking, and many other libraries available. One of the things I appreciate about Java is the ability to take large teams and just have their stuff work together, without having unhuman discipline around super subtle rules (eg: C++) Also, IntelliJ is a must have!

> super subtle rules (eg: C++) C++11/14 is in practice not that much more difficult to write well than Java. It's not 1998 anymore. The language is larger and more complex than Java, but it's also a lot more expressive and powerful, not to mention faster.

> C++11/14 is in practice not that much more difficult to write well than Java. It's not 1998 anymore.

While I agree with you and C++ belongs to my favorite languages, the truth is that most corporations still use C++98/C++03 and they aren't going to improve their compilers any time soon.

On our Java projects we still get requests for Java 1.4.

The enterprise is a very slow moving snail.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#107

Post by Terr_ »

Something that really resonates with me from the linked PDF ("Blue-collar language") published in 1997:

> What I found most interesting in watching people use Java was that they used it in a way similar to rapid prototyping languages. They just whacked something together. I was initially surprised by that, because Java is a very strongly typed system, and dynamic typing is often considered one of the real requirements of a rapid prototyping environment. [...] you find out fast when something goes wrong.

Despite working in JS and Python, sometimes I feel more comfortable hacking something up in Java, because every missing method or undefined variable is an unavoidable short-term TODO.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#108

Post by smrtinsert »

jebblue wrote: post #83

Good article, lots of opinions but the title forewarns. For me, Eclipse is still very good and if anything, more stable than in earlier years. I've tried NetBeans and the free IntelliJ but though those are fine, Eclipse is better for me. The real trick is to _not_ store your code in the workspace (which is ironically where the project wizards default to unless you change it). Store your code in as an example, svn for…

I do this, or have started to since I've been using git more. I also do it with large projects. Only my truly disposable projects are in the workspace.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#109

Post by icebraining »

spullara wrote: post #42
cpprototypes wrote: post #29

I like the changes in Java 8, but I'm concerned about Java fragmentation between Oracle/OpenJDK and Android. It seems Android is stuck on Java 1.6 (since Dalvik is not "true Java" and is more like a VM that happens to implement a language very similar to Java 1.6). There's now a huge gap between 1.6 and 1.8. It's not just syntax like lambda and default methods. It's also the supporting API changes in collections (str…

There is a good reason that Sun didn't want this to happen and tried to stop it in court — successful against Microsoft, failed against Google. If I remember right, most everyone on here was rooting for Google to win and continue to fragment the language.

I supported Google because the ends don't justify means. People should have the right to re-implement APIs, even if we sometimes wished they didn't.

Re: An Opinionated Guide to Modern Java Development, Part 1

#110

Post by zenbowman »

kyberias wrote: post #72

Why do people seem to think "opinionated" is a virtue these days?

An excellent question.

Opinionated: conceitedly assertive and dogmatic in one's opinions.

It generally refers to people who assert their opinion without making a sound argument for it. I consider it a huge negative.

Another vice that many consider a virtue is when they consider themselves to be "real" - this is generally code for lacking any self-discipline and being unable to control emotion.

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