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Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

time.com

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Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#101

Post by jasonkester »

codahale wrote: post #97
jasonkester wrote: post #62

Actually, I suspect the point of the article is to help fat people feel better about being fat. People (especially American people) need reassuring that nothing is ever their fault. You didn't get fat by eating too much because it's all determined by genetics, and you actually have a medical condition. You don't need to worry about trying to lose weight because it's been scientifically proven that you can't. That's w…

You're ignoring the fact that the food industries in Europe and America are very different. When Italy has an Applebee's in each strip mall then Italians will be as fat as Americans. People are people; neither you nor Europeans are magical in their limited appetites. They simply haven't been conditioned from birth to overeat. Or, alternatively, fat people are sissies. It's an, uh, interesting theory you've put forth.…

It still comes down to self control. I didn't move to Europe until I was 36, and I'm not fat. I've cut my share of Applebees Chicken Fried Steaks in half to box up for dinner, while my co-workers finished theirs off. It has just always seemed readily apparent that if you eat every meal until you are full, you will get fat. I don't, so I haven't.

So yeah, it's entirely possible that we're conditioning our kids to overeat. But then we're also going out of our way to make them feel better about themselves because you're special just the way you are.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#102

Post by StrawberryFrog »

gaius wrote: post #64
jodrellblank wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming a direct conversion of calories in to fat, as you do when you talk about eating 40 calories, leads to this quote: "If you eat 2,700 calories per day, that's roughly 1 million per year, 10 million in a decade. ~12 tons of food in a decade. To maintain your bodyweight to within 5lbs in a decade would require an accuracy of 0.1% in your calorie counting. Under this model, the question isn't why do people get fa…

This Gary Taube is an idiot. Here's how it actually works: you notice yourself getting fat over a period of weeks, and then you correct it over a period of weeks. It's a process of continual adjustment. You don't weigh yourself once every 10 years!

No, but I think that you're missing that he's pointing you at that conclusion - that the system is self-regulating to a large degree.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#103

Post by jaymon »

My favorite part of this article was a part in another article linked in the "Related stories" section:

Indeed, exercise was more strongly associated with weight loss than any other factor, including diet. Overall, the more the women exercised, the more weight they lost.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1827342,00.ht...

So yeah, diet is more important than exercise, and exercise is more important than diet. Glad we solved that, thanks Time.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#104

Post by jasonkester »

Hates_ wrote: post #5

Let me summarise. If you exercise you'll feel hungrier and if you don't show some self-restraint, you'll probably eat more and either not lose anything or actually put on weight. As the saying goes "Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym."

That was the bit of the article I found strange. I'll often head straight from the gym to the grocery store, and what usually happens it the exact opposite of what the article describes.

After a workout, I'm in "Health Mode", so at the store I fill the cart with the things that Health Mode Jason wants to eat. 3 days later, Slouch Mode Jason heads to the kitchen to find it filled with brown rice, chicken breasts and dried seaweed. What could I possibly have expected to make with seaweed??? And why isn't there anything here for dessert?

But yeah, it would never occur to me to head straight from the gym to In & Out burger. Health Mode Jason would never stand for that.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#105

Post by billroberts »

Retric wrote: post #49
dkarl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over forty miles per week with no rest days == too much for most people, way too much if you're overweight. Sure, some people do a lot more, but there are always exceptions. Every running trail and running club is disproportionately populated by people who have better resistance to injury. Steady running is one of the most challenging things you can do to your joints. (I find doing fartlek over a given distance a lot…

"aren't many things you can do by yourself that burn calories as well as running." All activity's at your aerobic limit burn the same number of calories. You can run, dance, row, weigh lift, or just bail hay, and you will encounter the same limit. It's basically a question of how much oxygen you can absorb though the lungs and dump into your blood stream.

That's true, but you have to work pretty hard on a bike to get your pulse rate as high as you do by running. (I've done a fair bit of cycling and running over the years). For an inexperienced cyclist, tired leg muscles tend to limit the effort before their heart and lungs do. And it's always tempting to take a rest on the downhills. So I reckon in most cases, you burn significantly fewer calories per hour cycling than you do running. On the other hand most people are capable of cycling for say two hours (if they have time) whereas it takes a lot of training to be able to run for two hours.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#106

Post by bhousel »

codahale wrote: post #94
nopassrecover wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000 calories for toast with Nutella!? I assume by calories you mean kilocalories in which case you are probably looking around 1000 KJ (kilojoules) for two slices of toast with Nutella. That's around 239 (kilo)calories.

Wheat bread's about 75 calories a slice, so 150 for just the bread. I don't know about you, but I put it on thick—maybe a serving-and-a-half per slice, which according to the Nutella website is 570 calories. So 720 total. Not 1,000, but closer to it than 239.

Really? here are the numbers I just got for comparison off the containers (both are serving size 2 Tbsp)

   Nutella:                190 calories, 11g fat, 21g sugar, 3g protein
   Organic Peanut Butter:  210 calories, 18g fat, 2g sugar, 8g protein
Nutella isn't really that bad. I'll sometimes eat it on bread before a long run.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#107

Post by codahale »

jasonkester wrote: post #101
codahale wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring the fact that the food industries in Europe and America are very different. When Italy has an Applebee's in each strip mall then Italians will be as fat as Americans. People are people; neither you nor Europeans are magical in their limited appetites. They simply haven't been conditioned from birth to overeat. Or, alternatively, fat people are sissies. It's an, uh, interesting theory you've put forth.…

It still comes down to self control. I didn't move to Europe until I was 36, and I'm not fat. I've cut my share of Applebees Chicken Fried Steaks in half to box up for dinner, while my co-workers finished theirs off. It has just always seemed readily apparent that if you eat every meal until you are full, you will get fat. I don't, so I haven't. So yeah, it's entirely possible that we're conditioning our kids to over…

I don't think you've read the OP.

It addresses self-control: evidence exists to support the idea that human have a limited amount and range of focus of self-control, and can suffer from self-control fatigue:

http://www.stolaf.edu/people/huff/classes/GoodnEvil/Readings...

Hell, that paper was on HN not long ago.

Self-control is not a great vehicle for weight loss, as is evidenced by the recidivism rate for diets, fad or otherwise. "Use self-control" is shitty advice for weight loss. "Avoid the cue-dopamine-behavior-opioid reinforcement cycle by using cognitive psychology self-talk to associate negative emotions with salient cues, consciously pre-determining behavior for when one is presented with salient cues, and avoiding hyperpalatable foods with high levels of salt, sugar, and fat" is closer to the mark, though it's not as punchy. Also doesn't provide the same sense of moral self-satisfaction from being stronger than fat people.

I have no idea where you're coming from with the special snowflake crap. The article was not titled Exercise Won't Make You Thin (So Buy A Mu-Mu And Eat Up Fatty Because You're Never Going To Change And That's OK). In fact, the article concludes with: "In short, it's what you eat, not how hard you try to work it off, that matters more in losing weight. You should exercise to improve your health, but be warned: fiery spurts of vigorous exercise could lead to weight gain."

I fail to detect the self-esteem happy-talk fatalism to which you're reacting.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#108

Post by codahale »

bhousel wrote: post #106
codahale wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheat bread's about 75 calories a slice, so 150 for just the bread. I don't know about you, but I put it on thick—maybe a serving-and-a-half per slice, which according to the Nutella website is 570 calories. So 720 total. Not 1,000, but closer to it than 239.

Really? here are the numbers I just got for comparison off the containers (both are serving size 2 Tbsp) Nutella: 190 calories, 11g fat, 21g sugar, 3g protein Organic Peanut Butter: 210 calories, 18g fat, 2g sugar, 8g protein Nutella isn't really that bad. I'll sometimes eat it on bread before a long run.

A serving size is 2Tbsp, which is what I put on a serving size of bread (1 slice) when I'm paying attention to how much I'm putting on. Like I said, though, I tend to slather it on (mainly because Nutella is so damn good)—so I'm really getting 1.5-2 servings of Nutella per slice.

Two slices—75kcal * 2—and a hunk of Nutella—190kcal * 3—is way the hell more calories than I should be eating as a snack (720kcal). Veeeery easy to go overboard.

Re: Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

#109

Post by xiaoma »

dkarl wrote: post #86
kscaldef wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so first, I'm certainly not saying every sedentary person should hop up and run for an hour tomorrow. I'm saying you can get there in a month or two of reasonable effort. And, if you'd prefer, get on a bike for an hour instead. It's lower impact, and you'll burn at least as many calories as running.

Okay, so first, I'm certainly not saying every sedentary person should hop up and run for an hour tomorrow. I'm saying you can get there in a month or two of reasonable effort. I'm not an expert, but I read what they say. This is way, way out of line with what any experienced running trainer would tell a beginner. Not even a beginner who was, say, an extremely fit swimmer. Definitely not a sedentary beginner. You hav…

Nearly every high school cross-country runner goes from zero to five days a week of running instantly. I built up to over 62 miles and six days of training a week in the first season and I know plenty of others who have done the same. Not only that, but I did the same thing again 15 years later and 60 pounds heavier.

The human body really is designed to run. Most injuries are due to pushing to go too fast. If you keep your heart rate at about 60-70% of max, you'd be surprised how quickly you can ramp up mileage without hurting yourself. The key is to never push yourself so hard that you feel like you couldn't do a workout the next day.

Cycling works almost as well from a cardio-vascular standpoint, too. It's not weight-bearing, though, so it won't help improve your bone density or strengthen your joints like running will. You could probably compensate by doing a bit of weight training. In the end, it comes down to getting off your butt and moving.

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