101–110 of 134 posts
To put in more westernized chess terms, this would be like beating a 2100Elo master without bishops. Yoshio is a professional and very skilled, but he hasn't won a major tourniquet since 1989. Really not an achievement, its nice to see Computer Go advancing. A 4 stone handicap between master's is massive. The difference between a 9d (dan) and 1d isn't actually 8 stones. With an 8 stone handicap a 1d will play a 9d of…
tournament?
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A four stone handicap in Go is way less than a four piece handicap in chess. Also, Crazy Stone is 6d on KGS.
True I edited it down to just bishops. And KGS is very inflated, a 6d on KGS vs. a 6d international professional wouldn't be contest. The normal conversion I hear is a 3d on KGS is around a 1k on Eastern Servers. Or that's my experience for people who play on KGS and eastern servers. I'm a 4k on KGS, but I know my knowledge is a bit amateur or a South Korean 4k.
Combinatorically, Go is considered pretty much the most complex game in existence, and computer go programs have been historically weak, so this seems to be quite an achievement (despite that it was against 4-stone-handicapped master passed his prime). One thing I wonder, though, if computers ever catch up to humans at Go, could we simply expand the board size a few spaces, thus dramatically increasing the problem sp…
People occasionally experiment with other sizes, such as 21x21 boards. The size of the board has a strong impact on the nature of the game, though.
The obvious change is that larger boards take longer to complete, putting humans at a disadvantage if fatigue comes into play. Less obvious is that 21x21 changes the value of tradition strategies. It is generally considered equivalent to play for board-edge territory as for central influence on a 19x19 board, but on 21x21 playing for the easily-defended outer regions is too small. The value of the center means that it's more valuable to play for central influence instead.
To answer your question in short: it's possible, but expanding the board size could make the game unfamiliar and decrease the effective ranking of pros.
To put in more westernized chess terms, this would be like beating a 2100Elo master without bishops. Yoshio is a professional and very skilled, but he hasn't won a major tourniquet since 1989. Really not an achievement, its nice to see Computer Go advancing. A 4 stone handicap between master's is massive. The difference between a 9d (dan) and 1d isn't actually 8 stones. With an 8 stone handicap a 1d will play a 9d of…
I think it's actually a pretty big deal than you're saying. Firstly, Yoshio was one of the strongest player in the 1970s. Nowadays, despite not being as strong as he was, I wouldn't say he's equivalent to 2100Elo master. If you assume that the top player is 2800, a +700 difference mean something like .9999 probability for the top player to win against Yoshio (which practically means always). I doubt that would be the…
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I remember watching a game around 15 years ago, Go professional (I forget who) vs a highly-ranked computer program. The computer got a 27 stone handicap, and the pro still won by more than 361 stones. Both of those numbers are crazy. The fact that computer programs are getting competitive is pretty awesome. 15 year ago, I wasn't sure they'd ever beat a competent human. But now I anticipate that 15 years from now (if…
In 1997, Janice Kim (1p) gave HandTalk a 25-stone handicap: she won.[0] In 2006, Crazy Stone ran on a 4 x 2-core CPU at 2.2 GHz and won gold in a tournament.[1] In 2013, the author purchased a 4 x 16-core CPU at 2.8 GHz for tournament play.[2] I would imagine that that was the hardware used for this game. For such a slow machine the Monte Carlo method has proved devastating.[3] Consider that the the author's computer…
It's not out of the question that the engines could be tweaked to improve their performance more with better/more hardware, but right now, they have disappointing results.
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www.gokgs.com is the server that's probably biggest in the English speaking world. The desktop client is Java based, there is an Android client, and we're waiting for an HTML client (it's in closed Alpha). There are several other servers that cater more to Asian players, but you can certainly play on them. There is also online-go.com, which is web-based. It has real-time games, but the majority of games on the server…
I didn't know about the KGS HTML client. Either I should hurry up with my side-project or abandon it, as that's exactly what I'm building (but obviously without the already established KGS user base).
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Another semi-unrelated: Can someone recommend a decent board and set of stones, that don't feel too shabby yet don't cost an arm and a leg?
Yellow Mountain Imports has a good looking and feeling bamboo set (bowls, board, yunzi stones) for under $100. GoGameGuru has some cheap sets too, but not with bowls. Both have a shin "kaya" set for under $200.
I went to the local go club a few times before picking up my own go equipment. I wanted to get some "hands on" feel for the board and stones, to pick the brain of people who have played longer than me on a greater variety of equipment, and to find out how genuinely terrible I am at go. I live in a town where there is a decent sized Asian market area. While some of the shops had go equipment, it was subpar and way too expensive for my blood.
The set MichaelGG is talking about is the first set that I picked up for myself. It was the centerpiece of my living room for several years, and has taken all of the abuse I can throw at it (over eager new players, drunk friends, young kids, pets, the go club) in stride.
As I was still learning and teaching the game I picked up a smaller, reversible 9x9 and 13x13 board with plastic stones, and that set never sees the light of day. It's far too light and chintzy to play on now. If you're sure you want go equipment, I would take at least a bamboo board and single convex yunzi stones. The upfront cost might seem like much, but the set from YMI will last at least a generation if not longer.
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Yep. The difference between Ishida and a top pro today probably isn't more than 2 stones.
I was under the impression that the difference between nearly all pros is 3 stones or less.
To put in more westernized chess terms, this would be like beating a 2100Elo master without bishops. Yoshio is a professional and very skilled, but he hasn't won a major tourniquet since 1989. Really not an achievement, its nice to see Computer Go advancing. A 4 stone handicap between master's is massive. The difference between a 9d (dan) and 1d isn't actually 8 stones. With an 8 stone handicap a 1d will play a 9d of…
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=ht...
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You'll notice they didn't support their arguments - they were just guessing.
My limited understanding of go is that the stone placement confers position and tempo, too, which would be undercounted looking at it purely from points.