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Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

arstechnica.com

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Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#101

Post by dinkumthinkum »

lawl wrote: post #4

I totally see how this could upset people. But I'm not sure how his management qualities are tied to his political opinions. It's the same with politicans, what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views? I 100% support gay marriage. I also understand they're upset. But I don't know if this is the right reaction.

I think an affair is a little different than trying to affect political change. What if he was a white supremacist? No big deal because if a white supremacists writes qsorts, it's still O(nlogn)? That may seem a bit extreme but it's essentially like this. A CEO is in some a ways political animal and is certainly a representative of an organization. I think political causes are different from affairs. However, he hasn't done anything against the law here but I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want to boycott.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#102

Post by nine_k »

Camillo wrote: post #65

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as…

What a sad example of meandering with the party line I see here.

The desire to have always had the currently approved opinion is bad enough as it is, but the need to have it to comply with political correctness, or face a "liability", is worse.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#103

Post by asdfologist »

steve19 wrote: post #15

tolerance is a two way street. would it be OK for conservative muslims to protest a gay CEO? no. in a democracy and in a world with many differing points of view at some point you just have to tolerate each others beliefs, regardless of how much you oppose them, and just get along. edit: and now my words are being twisted. I never said being gay was a belief. what one person thinks of a proposed law is a belief. edit…

It would be OK for Muslims to protest someone who wants to take away their rights. That would be a fair analogy.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#105

Post by mikeash »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #97
mikeash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please come up with a different scenario, because you're never going to convince me that it's wrong to try to discourage you from putting me in a concentration camp, or taking any steps to put in power someone who would.

Sure, discourage me. Come out in the public square and let's have it out. You use your powers of free speech and persuasion and convince me I'm wrong. If I feel strongly about my opinions, I'll do the same to try to persuade you that you're wrong. Democracy at work. Start poking around to find whatever job I have and then try to get me fired? Really? That counts as "discouragement" in your book? You realize, of cours…

As a practical matter, the less money you have, the less you can fund your attempts to have me killed.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#106

Post by dinkumthinkum »

Karellen wrote: post #50
lawl wrote: post #4

I totally see how this could upset people. But I'm not sure how his management qualities are tied to his political opinions. It's the same with politicans, what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views? I 100% support gay marriage. I also understand they're upset. But I don't know if this is the right reaction.

"what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views?" Uh, integrity? If a politician won't keep probably the most solemn vow they've ever made, to the person they were most committed to in their life, in front of all the other people they care about most, why the fuck do you think they'll keep some fucking campaign promise to you and a bunch of other faceless citizens they've never met to make your lives be…

Well this is a bit high and mighty. I think you're ethical standard is a bit naive. As well, marriage being the most "solemn vow," that's sort of a personal thing and subject to many different norms.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#107

Post by gojomo »

ender7 wrote: post #11

If this were any other company I don't think this would turn any heads. However, much of Mozilla's ethos and community support is built on ethical rather than capitalistic foundations. It's hard to reconcile thoughts on a company that seems to so value freedom in some areas but not in others [1]. [1] Inferring what Mozilla values based on the opinions of its CEO is not particularly fair , but then again I'm not sure…

Judge Mozilla on the actions of the organization, and the staff while performing their official roles.

What the staff does in other spheres of life, with their own time and money, is their own concern. It's a freer society, and a more pro-freedom organization, that grants individuals the widest range of actions and opinions when away from their official responsibilities.

The CEO position isn't "mascot" or "most popular" or "dear leader". (Those are cult-of-personality failure modes for a professional organization.) It's lead administrator, with specific on-the-job duties which involve essentially no electoral politicking nor meddling in employees' lives.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#108

Post by jkelsey »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #41
general_failure wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best of luck getting your signal through in all this noise :-)

The internet at its best: a hundred thousand people in a feel-good mob all on a joint rant about somebody who has done something rude and/or unpopular that we can all emote with one another about.

You don't have to take part in this discussion if you don't want to. You don't even have to click on the link.

If you're a public place, and some group of people that you don't otherwise know are having a conversation amongst themselves, do you go up to them and tell them, "I don't care about you are talking about." You probably don't, right? Because it would be weird.

Turns out the same thing applies for the Internet.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#109

Post by hkphooey »

general_failure wrote: post #37
ender7 wrote: post #11

If this were any other company I don't think this would turn any heads. However, much of Mozilla's ethos and community support is built on ethical rather than capitalistic foundations. It's hard to reconcile thoughts on a company that seems to so value freedom in some areas but not in others [1]. [1] Inferring what Mozilla values based on the opinions of its CEO is not particularly fair , but then again I'm not sure…

Agree. To me, Mozilla is much more than a company. It's more like family. It's purpose is to set a high moral ground and place values over anything else. With that in mind appointing someone whose moral standing is questionable, makes this decision hard to accept. I guess it was silly of me to imagine mozilla as something larger than life/more than a run of the mill company.

I'm sorry, but you made a mistake of projecting your own beliefs and value system onto Mozilla.

Mozilla is simply a technology organization and their mission is to promote a free and open web. It is not human rights, animal rights, or anything else.

If Brendan Eich believes in a free and open web then he is the right person for the job.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#110

Post by dinkumthinkum »

steve19 wrote: post #15

tolerance is a two way street. would it be OK for conservative muslims to protest a gay CEO? no. in a democracy and in a world with many differing points of view at some point you just have to tolerate each others beliefs, regardless of how much you oppose them, and just get along. edit: and now my words are being twisted. I never said being gay was a belief. what one person thinks of a proposed law is a belief. edit…

It is definitely OK for them to protest. It is definitely OK for people who believe in a Flat Earth to protest NSF. No problem there.
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