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Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

idangero.us

101–110 of 131 posts

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"security reasons" (= http://bit.ly/1d7p5Tq ) it would be interesting if they elaborate on those...

More like "job security" reasons as they have less control over webapps than apps.

Same reason I think they're dragging their feet on various parts of HTML5 that everyone else has already implemented, such as IndexedDB.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#102

Cross-platform UI is a bad idea on the desktop. Cross-platform UI also is a bad idea on mobile. We need to learn from the past. Cross-platform UI is a conceptual mistake. An app that has an icon on the home screen is perceived by the user as "an app", no matter if it actually launches the browser without the toolbar, if it is a web app wrapped in a PhoneGap shell of if it is a native app. To the user, it's an app. It…

Completely agreed. However, I think you're missing a point here. The purpose for pushing cross-platform web-app-presented-as-native development memes isn't to make apps appear the same everywhere in a pretense toward common user interaction; it's to commoditize the developer labor market in these areas. It's better for companies (but not developers) if it's easier and cheaper to hire from a broad labor pool to produce mediocre-but-good-enough products.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "job security" reasons as they have less control over webapps than apps.

Same reason I think they're dragging their feet on various parts of HTML5 that everyone else has already implemented, such as IndexedDB.

You forgot to mention the part where Apple was first to implement features that later become known as HTML5. Also, the story of Web SQL and IndexedDB is not so simple.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never" is much too strong a word to use, but I think that it is very very very unlikely that any major mobile vendor (Apple, Google, Microsoft) will invest much time and money to make the web a first-class citizen for apps on their platform. Each company wants to offer the best experience on THEIR platform and offer features that are only available on THEIR platform so that more developers develop apps for only thei…

Google is investing a lot of money with efforts like Chrome apps and Cordova.

True, but it doesn't seem to me as if Google tries to push web apps as an "as-good-as-or-better-than-native-Android-apps" approach to make apps.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#105

Cross-platform UI is a bad idea on the desktop. Cross-platform UI also is a bad idea on mobile. We need to learn from the past. Cross-platform UI is a conceptual mistake. An app that has an icon on the home screen is perceived by the user as "an app", no matter if it actually launches the browser without the toolbar, if it is a web app wrapped in a PhoneGap shell of if it is a native app. To the user, it's an app. It…

> Cross-platform UI is a bad idea on the desktop. Is it? At the end of the day, that's what the web is, right? Gmail (or even Google Docs) may or may not be your favorite email client, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, per se. I think you're right about user expectations on mobile. I also agree that we've all seen how terrible the UIs on some cross-platform Java and Flash applications are, but—given the…

The web is text, alas that is too often forgotten now.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#106

Cross-platform UI is a bad idea on the desktop. Cross-platform UI also is a bad idea on mobile. We need to learn from the past. Cross-platform UI is a conceptual mistake. An app that has an icon on the home screen is perceived by the user as "an app", no matter if it actually launches the browser without the toolbar, if it is a web app wrapped in a PhoneGap shell of if it is a native app. To the user, it's an app. It…

Completely agreed. However, I think you're missing a point here. The purpose for pushing cross-platform web-app-presented-as-native development memes isn't to make apps appear the same everywhere in a pretense toward common user interaction; it's to commoditize the developer labor market in these areas. It's better for companies (but not developers) if it's easier and cheaper to hire from a broad labor pool to produc…

That might unfortunately be true. However, even that is a misconception on the part of companies thinking it is "easier, faster, cheaper" to create web-based apps. Building something with web technologies that's on par with native is hard and difficult work. It's a myth that it's so much easier and faster to build an app with web technologies. It could very well take longer and still have a worse user experience. Building a simple native app is, well, simple. It might be way more complicated to build it with web technologies (if you try to mimic native).

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you would have to mark some of the apps pages as executable, iirc, which could allow for arbitrary code execution.

That makes little to no sense. This reeks of the same logic that caused them to disable HTML file upload buttons (there's "no" filesystem -- which is apparently why you can't even browse for photos and uploads until recent IOS). This is what drove "there's an app for that" for so many years: Apple's systematic limiting of web apps into a severely curtailed walled garden so that the app store would -- in fact, could -…

Ok, show me Android apps which are as performant as native. This nonsense about Apple fearing web apps should stop already.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#108
post #97

Cross-platform UI is a bad idea on the desktop. Cross-platform UI also is a bad idea on mobile. We need to learn from the past. Cross-platform UI is a conceptual mistake. An app that has an icon on the home screen is perceived by the user as "an app", no matter if it actually launches the browser without the toolbar, if it is a web app wrapped in a PhoneGap shell of if it is a native app. To the user, it's an app. It…

You typed your comment on a highly effective cross-platform UI, and I'm reading it on the very same. While there is a place for experiences tailored for specific devices, cross-platform UI also offers value, especially for fast prototyping and iteration.

I don't dislike the web. I dislike it when web technologies are used to mimic native apps because that creates expectations that can't be fulfilled.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. Enterprises definitely buy into that idea and they do have their employees work with these crippled apps because they have no other choice. But the experience for this 'CRUD' app is definitely not good enough. It's by forcing it that it gets used. It depends on how intensively it will be used in reality, but I definitely know quite a few companies who went from BYOD and an HTML5 Cordova app which was…

You don't have to buy it, it's an undeniable reality. Yes, if you're an enterprise and you can afford to write native apps for all platforms, then that's the better choice. If you're a small startup or a single developer, writing the app 3 times is just not cost effective.

Most likely you never tried to do what you preach. You will end writing your app only a little bit faster (if you are lucky) and then three times more on debugging.

Re: Framework 7 – Building native iOS apps in HTML5

#110
post #2

The title should say, mimics native iOS UI in the browser. Nice job though.

This. I like the look of it and it's still useful, but we need to stop abusing the word "native." Let's be clear that this is just an html framework that looks like a native app. It's still a website.

This is not the same thing as Phonegap, for example, which lets you build a native app you could install from the app store.

Again, still useful if you want your mobile website to look native, but not the same thing.

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