Burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: Burnout

#101

Post by groovy2shoes » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:26 PM UTC

daGrevis wrote: post #24

Here's a theory — an ideal job is a job that fulfills your desire to code to a level in which you don't want to do any coding after work hours. There's so much challenging tasks and new things you learn right away by doing things you are paid for that you don't need to search for something new after work.

I recently changed jobs from one where I felt underutilized and bored to one where I get to code more and I feel much more satisfied. I've found that my interest in coding after work and on weekends is actually gotten higher since the switch.

Maybe I'm just in a better mood now, or maybe it's some sort of "productivity momentum". It used to be that when I got home from work, the thought of looking at a computer screen made me feel sick. Now it's fine. It's not that I rush home and code every night (I still take the time to unwind and relax), but I actually feel like I can go home and code now whereas I just couldn't bring myself to do it before.

Re: Burnout

#102

Post by twstdroot » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:28 PM UTC

MAGZine wrote: post #60

a3voices wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a Fortune 500 company as a programmer and I've spent probably 70-80% of my time at work over the last four years reading random tech news.

Pretty bold statement for someone who has their full name + location + place of work in twitter handle in their profile ;-)

I don't think they are really outside the norm for corporate life. If people were productive at work, we'd need less web proxies to handle the load.

Re: Burnout

#103

Post by twstdroot » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

goalieca wrote: post #37

jscheel wrote: post #16

I am finding that it's better to just leave the stupid computer off when I get home. It gives me more time with my wife and daughter, and I feel more rested and ready for the next day. For example, last Saturday was filled with bike rides, walks, and playing outside. That's it. Yes, I have a list of about 10,000 different things I'm interesting in learning and doing, and another list that size of things that actually…

Sometimes I find that instead of reading about tech and trying little hobby things at home, I'm better off trying to fit that into my work somehow. Even a full 8 hours of programming 5 days in a row can be enough to mentally drain you if you're actually working the whole time.

I came to the same realization recently. I have a lot of flexibility at work to work on personal projects that relate to my job. Unfortunately work doesn't provide some of the infrastructure I need/want. So now I have a decent lab at home and a VPN connection in. Work gives me the time, I give the resources. Good balance.

Re: Burnout

#104

Post by crucialfelix » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:41 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

> It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you are. Any story or idea that fills the need to feel different, special, and unique ...

And yet this gets harder and harder on a planet of 7 billion people, more and more of them coming online; entire previously invisible countries of hackers popping up on the global screen.

We've gone through this already in music where the number of musicians and releases went exponential. It became harder to get heard, and your 15 minutes gets shorter.

We are not unique - that's a relic of the age of the individual. Perhaps we should leave that behind as a relic of the 20th century. Crowd intelligence and emergent behavior could be the place to put our energies.

Re: Burnout

#105

Post by lawnchair_larry » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:48 PM UTC

noname123 wrote: post #91

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

I'll start. I want to work so hard because I want to get up on a podium someday at my high school or college podium and make a "f-you all" speech like Jerry McGuire in "Jerry McGuire" (1996). I want to make all of the guys who bullied me or dismissed me wonder looking at me how they got where they are now. I want to make all of the girls/ex'es who spurned me or laughed at me wonder why they didn't see the diamond in…

Why do you care about those people?

I suspect that in a few more years, you'll revoke their license to occupy your brain and control your path in life. That's true freedom.

Some people don't realize this until it's too late, and all they can do is look back and say, "for what?"

If your ego doesn't kill you, it will rob you of your best years, so be careful.

Re: Burnout

#106

Post by falcolas » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:50 PM UTC

EC1 wrote: post #3

> A few years ago I wanted to know everything. I spent the day at work thinking about what I would do when I got home and then spend the evening studying various things as hard as I could. I would stress over how there werent enought hours in the day to do what I wanted to do. There was rarely an hour in the day where I wasnt productive in some way. Oou, this resonates with me. For the past year I've been trying to o…

> I rather sacrifice my 20's to live it up in my 30's.

A quick bit of unsolicited advice on this life plan: Plan for tomorrow, but live for today.

The reasoning behind the hard-earned advice: How do you know you'll make it to your 30's? I've had too many friends die unexpectedly to take it in faith that I'll hit any particular age.

Relatedly, I know far too many people in their 60's who spent their entire lives working their butts off so they could eventually retire who now find themselves unable to stop working. The cost of repairing that 35 year old home is now more than their morgage ever was, their pension fund was plundered by execs, and their nest egg didn't grow at the same rate as inflation.

They're back working now, and wondering (typically bitterly) if all that extra work was worth it, or if it would have been better spent enjoying the time they were in.

Re: Burnout

#107

Post by csmatt » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:51 PM UTC

noname123 wrote: post #91

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

I'll start. I want to work so hard because I want to get up on a podium someday at my high school or college podium and make a "f-you all" speech like Jerry McGuire in "Jerry McGuire" (1996). I want to make all of the guys who bullied me or dismissed me wonder looking at me how they got where they are now. I want to make all of the girls/ex'es who spurned me or laughed at me wonder why they didn't see the diamond in…

This is beautiful. I feel like it describes past, present, and future me and gives me hope and some nice guidelines.

Re: Burnout

#108

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #76

sdegutis wrote: post #39

> For the first time in years I had time to do silly stuff like playing video games, going out for a walk or watch movies. For the first time in years I didnt grit my teeth and churn out that little bit of code that would help me develop my skills further. > It feels great. I can totally relate. A few months ago, I started giving up on my open source projects, as a side-effect of burnout. Admittedly part of the solut…

That's a pretty neat project. Since it's a big effort, you shouldn't beat yourself up about it. You should be honest with yourself about motivations and reasons for doing open source. Do it because you like tinkering, not because it's a resume-builder. Truth is, open source is not a meritocracy, it's more of a lottery. I've been mildly successful (as in, entranced a nascent community) at it for a time, but I found it…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout

#109

Post by sdegutis » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 6:14 PM UTC

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #76

sdegutis wrote: post #39

> For the first time in years I had time to do silly stuff like playing video games, going out for a walk or watch movies. For the first time in years I didnt grit my teeth and churn out that little bit of code that would help me develop my skills further. > It feels great. I can totally relate. A few months ago, I started giving up on my open source projects, as a side-effect of burnout. Admittedly part of the solut…

That's a pretty neat project. Since it's a big effort, you shouldn't beat yourself up about it. You should be honest with yourself about motivations and reasons for doing open source. Do it because you like tinkering, not because it's a resume-builder. Truth is, open source is not a meritocracy, it's more of a lottery. I've been mildly successful (as in, entranced a nascent community) at it for a time, but I found it…

> That's a pretty neat project. Since it's a big effort, you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.

Thanks.

> You should be honest with yourself about motivations and reasons for doing open source. Do it because you like tinkering, not because it's a resume-builder. Truth is, open source is not a meritocracy, it's more of a lottery. I've been mildly successful (as in, entranced a nascent community) at it for a time, but I found it a bit stressful with expectations and all.

I was initially motivated by it being an interesting problem to solve. But I quickly ran into it being more difficult than interesting, so my steam started running out faster. I may be able to salvage it if there's any community interest in it, but it's difficult to get anyone interested without having a working prototype to demo, which is actually the hardest part of this project (i.e. dealing with libffi and boxing ObjC objects, etc).

> PS: do you work at 8th Light?

I used to. Now I work for http://www.cleancoders.com/

Re: Burnout

#110

Post by alaskamiller » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 6:20 PM UTC

dpcan wrote: post #72

agentultra wrote: post #62

My theory is that "burnout" is a symptom of the endemic "hero" meme of our culture. Think about all the movies you've seen since the 1980s, the shows you've watched, the books you've read. Embedded in the majority of them is the simple idea that there's something special inside you that can set you apart from everyone else. It whispers seductively to that part of your brain that lies to you about how important you ar…

I've reached a similar conclusion lately in dealing with burnout. I'm trying to figure out who I really want to be, rather than what I thought I was supposed to be. It wasn't so much movies,books,etc, but as a 34 yr-old ex-computer geek of the 90's, I'm dealing with my own "expectations" complex. I spent day and night back then on computers, building them, fixing them, coding, fixing them at schools, local businesses…

When you go to heaven, and St. Peter asks you what have you done with your life. You don't get past the judgement by saying, I'm sorry I didn't get to be the next Steve Jobs, the next Bill Gates, the next Elon Musk.

You'll get asked why didn't you become the best you possible.