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Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

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Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#101

Post by commandar »

lholoubek wrote: post #97
biblio777 wrote: post #80

Let's stick with some facts (I'm a pilot and work closely with the FAA for my dayjob so I know a bit about this space) ... - The FAA is responsible for the safety of U.S. airspace from the ground up. This misperception may originate with the idea that manned aircraft generally must stay at least 500 feet above the ground. - There are no shades of gray in FAA regulations. Anyone who wants to fly an aircraft—manned or…

It appears this issue is exactly what the decision addressed. At issue was whether the definition of "aircraft" applied to the model aircraft that Mr. Pirker was flying. You're correct in stating that every aircraft, as defined under the regulations, must have FAA approval (in most cases, a COA). The judge concluded specifically that "aircraft as defined in 14 CFR Part 1, Section 1.1 does not include model aircraft.[…

And one of the issues here is that the existing regulations didn't make much sense. The exact same aircraft that would be considered a model aircraft if you would fly as a hobbyist would suddenly be classified as a UAS the instant you took any payment to fly it.

So, I could go out to a field and zoom around a field and record footage to my heart's content and be completely kosher. But if my buddy decided it'd be neat to have a photo of his neighborhood and gives me $5 to fly over and snap one, I'm illegally operating a UAS. Absolutely nothing has changed in terms of what the aircraft is and the level of danger it does or does not pose.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#102

Post by Qworg »

bliti wrote: post #87
jccooper wrote: post #37

It's not quite so big as the headline, but it's still good. Here's the scoop: The FAA has long had rules for model aircraft, which would include many small "drones", and under which you can personally operate them now. You're supposed to stay low and away from stuff you could damage. They also (as of fairly recently) have some rules for UAS (unmanned aerial systems) that are more like the rules for real aircraft, and…

I know of several engineering companies who took aerial photos with R/C airplanes. Ranging from project sites, to land surveying, to real estate, etc. Does this ruling stop them from doing what they have been doing since the 1990s?

AFAIK, that always used a loophole - you're not charging for the photos, you're charging for the service of engineering work.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#103

Post by bnzelener »

elliottkember wrote: post #98
bnzelener wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, "Trappy" (nickname of the pilot) is one of the best RC pilots around. He flies for Team Blacksheep, and is a big figure in the drone community for encouraging safety, education, and progressing the tech. He's definitely known for pushing the envelope on reckless flight, but I get the sense that he would take responsibility if something happened. These flying wings (foam plane model) absorb a lot of f…

The issue is the example being set. Trappy is definitely one of the best, but his videos don't demonstrate his hours of experience, or safety considerations, to a novice pilot. The affordability of the machine plus some examples of fancy flying are sure to put dangerous machines in the hands of idiots, and that's best avoided. Remember - these things fly out of the box with no training. Trappy also has access to many…

Agreed.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#104

Post by mbreese »

jccooper wrote: post #63
mbreese wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere I think I saw something about requiring the ability to take manual control too, which would require line of sight. Maybe I'm thinking of AMA requirements though... (think model airplanes, not doctors - although, doctors also require line of sight)

I thought I saw those too, but haven't been able to find them in the FAA notices for model aircraft. There is such a clause in the 2012 for small unmanned aircraft (sUAS) use by a "government public safety agency". I would presume the FAA will try to apply such a rule to civil use after this ruling. Edit: Federal Register Notice 14 CFR Part 91 says they "expect line of sight" for model aircraft. It does not seem to b…

Yeah, line-of-sight/manual takeover might just be a requirement for the AMA's insurance coverage.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#105

Post by sliverstorm »

atourgates wrote: post #88
efuquen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, that looked rather dangerous and the pilot seemed to have a complete disregard for potentially crashing into buildings and harming someone if that thing fell to the ground or went through a window. If he was just meandering around in what would have looked like a safe manner I wouldn't care as much, but intentionally getting extremely close to buildings and doing acrobatics in a populated area seems pretty reckl…

I think there's a pretty low risk of serious damage occurring from this drone colliding with much of anything. This is the model being piloted in the videos: http://www.ritewingrc.com/Zephyr_II_ARF.html It's basically two pieces of EPS foam with some electronics and a pusher prop. If you were going to be hit in the face by a "drone" - you couldn't really pick a less damaging one.

It still appears to be moving at freeway speeds or greater, and at 65mph even foam can be dangerous to humans.

It's hard to pin its speed, but watch it move through city blocks in seconds & remember that driving/bicycling/motorcycling always looks slower than real speed in POV videos

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#106

Post by sliverstorm »

SpacemanSpiff wrote: post #31

So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL? Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident…

the nature of radio control has necessitated that the model aircraft generally be withing sight range of the operator, and as such the operator is still able to avoid other aircraft to some extent

Forget about avoiding aircraft- the constraint of sight is going to mean you won't encounter many aircraft! People fly RC planes in parks, not airport landing strips!

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#107

Post by CamperBob2 »

king_jester wrote: post #93
atourgates wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a pretty low risk of serious damage occurring from this drone colliding with much of anything. This is the model being piloted in the videos: http://www.ritewingrc.com/Zephyr_II_ARF.html It's basically two pieces of EPS foam with some electronics and a pusher prop. If you were going to be hit in the face by a "drone" - you couldn't really pick a less damaging one.

If the drone has any significant speed, it will cause serious damage to an individual if hit. If it causes a traffic disruption, the danger then comes from a vehicle that may make a maneuver to avoid getting hit or if a driver loses control after colliding with the drone. It it shatters glass, serious lacerations could occur for pedestrians. This kind of flying is highly reckless and only an asshole would do this.

Still, not everything has to be a Federal case.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#108

Post by CamperBob2 »

SpacemanSpiff wrote: post #50
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing changes for you. Also continue to avoid flocks of birds, which by all appearances are oblivious to FAA directives.

And every year there are numerous incidents where a bird strike inflicts significant damage to a manned aircraft. Just because a risk already exists doesn't mean that it's acceptable or wise to increase this risk arbitrarily IMO.

Unfortunately, you don't live in a society where we're required to remove all risk from your profession.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#109

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

SpacemanSpiff wrote: post #50
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing changes for you. Also continue to avoid flocks of birds, which by all appearances are oblivious to FAA directives.

And every year there are numerous incidents where a bird strike inflicts significant damage to a manned aircraft. Just because a risk already exists doesn't mean that it's acceptable or wise to increase this risk arbitrarily IMO.

Right, so you're comfortable with the amount of risk today, and you don't want to increase risk. Shall we then freeze and cap the number of Private Pilot certificates issued by the FAA? Wouldn't want to increase the risk (by adding more pilot traffic) merely because someone else also wants to fly an airplane.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#110

Post by foobarqux »

jccooper wrote: post #37

It's not quite so big as the headline, but it's still good. Here's the scoop: The FAA has long had rules for model aircraft, which would include many small "drones", and under which you can personally operate them now. You're supposed to stay low and away from stuff you could damage. They also (as of fairly recently) have some rules for UAS (unmanned aerial systems) that are more like the rules for real aircraft, and…

Do you know what the software certification criteria are for a sUAS and UAS?
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