Arguably this helped startups, since an ex Apple guy who couldn't go to Google could found a startup (and then maybe sell to Google later). Still lame though.
Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
101–110 of 144 posts
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
exactly a BART train driver earns about the same as a developer and will have overtime and a much much better pension. Same in the UK a tube driver earns far more than the average developer does in London and has a Final Salary pension plus overtime.
A BART "train driver" is responsible for the lives of hundreds at a time. Attended school, and takes ongoing continuing education classes to maintain their license. They compete for a few hundred jobs in the US and if they don't get or keep that job there is no competition locally to transfer to. That "SV Engineers feel entitled" thing I said. You just demonstrated it.
I am not saying that BART or LU Drivers are overpaid - but that the average SV programmer or London developer is not overpaid when compared to them - techies are not very good at organizing collectively.
Name me one SV tech company that has a final salary pension open to new joiners.
And sorry 95% of the safety is in the TPS system and I would probably bet that the EE's that design and look after that system for London Underground are not paid £60k plus overtime
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#103I have personally witnessed the frustrating side of this "no poaching" pact. A close friend was tired of the "Manager Arrogance" at one of these colluding companies. He quietly put out the word,pretty quickly got approached by a hiring manager at another company - things were going swimmingly. Then the Hiring manager put in the Req to HR - a V.P. called him personally and but confirmed this "no poaching" B.S. The wag…
Why not name the company? These companies deserve to be called out.
He posts regularly on HN so (I guess) has almost certainly seen this thread. Up to him now.
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#104> It also offers a portrait of Silicon Valley engineers that differs sharply from their current caricature as well-paid villains who are driving up the price of real estate in San Francisco and making the city unbearable for others. What? "unbearable"? That seems a little out of place. Would most NYTimes readers have any idea what he's talking about? From the author's recent articles list: -- In little more than a de…
Wow, did Eric Schmidt run over his dog or something? Guy's got a serious bias!
yeah it's CP Snows Two nations repeating its self - Arts Grads vs the oily engineers.
Some of his angst is that as a child of a major columnist in a broadsheet he feels that he should have a proper job on a proper news paper which in previous generations he woudl have stood a good chance of like say Polly Toynbee on the Guardian.
Due to the decimation of the traditional print media he can't get a nice job on the NYT as a columnist and has to slum it in a tabloid and they are using typical tabloid "monstering" techniques
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Size of portfolio matters. This is the reason that tech companies seek to acquire large rather than technically sound patent portfolios. Briefly: defense against infringement runs around $1-$10 million per patent )(it may be higher, my information's somewhat dated). Defeat one patent, and the company with the larger portfolio presses suit with another, and another. Even if the plaintiff successfully defends itself ag…
In a successful defense, does the defending party get their legal fees reimbursed by the suing party?
"does the defending party get their legal fees reimbursed by the suing party?"
Almost never.
The law requires "exceptional circumstances" for an award of attorney fees and the CAFC (the patent appeals court) is inclined to reverse even fees awarded under those circumstances.
There were two cases argued at the Supreme Court this week to try to define what constitutes "exceptional" and reduce the authority of the CAFC to weaken the awards. [0] The court isn't expected to change much.
There is a bill in Congress that has passed the House and is being considered by the Senate [1] which would change the rule to award fees by default "unless the court finds that the position and conduct of the nonprevailing party or parties were reasonably justified in law and fact."
So plenty of people even in languid Washington are frustrated with the current lack of fee shifting. Maybe something will be done. Maybe not. Washington is not famous for swiftness or wisdom.
[0] http://patentlyo.com/patent/2014/02/shifting-arguments-highm...
[1] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr3309eh/pdf/BILLS-113...
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#106This case is a beautiful demonstration of the dynamics of both "free market" and regulation. Free market dynamics demand (in this case as in all cases) that large players must never compete on prices or wages (as your competitors have the resources to fight back, so competition on price just makes everyone worse off). On the other hand, regulation was used both to stop an exploitation by the market (antitrust), as we…
" On the other hand, regulation was used both to stop an exploitation by the market " I don't see any evidence that regulation stopped the behavior in this case. Perhaps the law will be used after the fact to sue or jail some people, but it doesn't seem to be what actually stopped the problem. As another poster said, the class action date ranges end in 2009 because Facebook (a private company) wouldn't play ball. Cap…
> Capitalism is a messy system, but it does tend to self correct in the long run.
That's quite a generalization; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
People (including me) often say that barriers to entry are low, but I think it's a bit more complicated than that. There are no legal barriers to entry. But barriers to being a "mathematician" are also low. But would you say that the barriers to doing meaningful mathematical work are low? It's out of reach of most of the population. Anyone can hang out a shingle as a software developer, but are the barriers to gettin…
I'd say definitely lower than RN. Not to mention all kinds of certifications that can be expensive and time-consuming too. Great software engineers are rare, but common ones are nowhere near the level you need to be to make a significant contribution to math field. And the pay is much better.
Most of the developers I've met from the companies mentioned have masters or phds as well as substantial work experience on real-world projects. Those that don't are usually exceptional individuals.
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Five years is not a very long time for a company, and it assumes this collusion actually suppressed wages in a meaningful way, compared to the rest of the industry, which is yet to be proven. >>> Besides, how can their talent leave for players paying better money when nobody except for the large players can afford top wages? If their wages are so high already as to be unaffordable for most of the industry, it signifi…
Five years is not a very long time for a company, but for an individual? Especially in an industry that exhibits ageism and by some accounts is "done with you" when you turn 40? Given that, five years is more than 25% of the time in which you are hot on the market. So, no, I don't really think someone who has been shafted for five years is being "impatient". Just how long do you expect them to wait?
Where that 40 thing comes from? Maybe it was true 20 years ago when 40 years old meant no extensive experience with modern computing, but by now it's plain stupid to refuse to hire experienced developers in their 40s. Sergey Brin is 40, Larry Page is 40 - are they really "too old" now? I think this ageism thing is going to die very soon, if it already didn't.
>>> Just how long do you expect them to wait?
That depends on what you're waiting for. I was talking about economic processes, they don't happen overnight. If you want to improve your personal situation, you don't have to wait for that.
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Five years is not a very long time for a company, but for an individual? Especially in an industry that exhibits ageism and by some accounts is "done with you" when you turn 40? Given that, five years is more than 25% of the time in which you are hot on the market. So, no, I don't really think someone who has been shafted for five years is being "impatient". Just how long do you expect them to wait?
Where that 40 thing comes from? Maybe it was true 20 years ago when 40 years old meant no extensive experience with modern computing, but by now it's plain stupid to refuse to hire experienced developers in their 40s. Sergey Brin is 40, Larry Page is 40 - are they really "too old" now? I think this ageism thing is going to die very soon, if it already didn't. >>> Just how long do you expect them to wait? That depends…
Where that 40 thing comes from?
My observation of discussions on HN about age discrimination. (I'm not a software engineer, so I have no personal touch with that job market)
If you want to improve your personal situation, you don't have to wait for that.
When the top employers are actively colluding against you, maybe yes, you do. You have no power against a company worth $400B, unless you band together with your peers. Perhaps in some kind of legal action...?
Re: Engineers Allege Hiring Collusion in Silicon Valley
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where that 40 thing comes from? Maybe it was true 20 years ago when 40 years old meant no extensive experience with modern computing, but by now it's plain stupid to refuse to hire experienced developers in their 40s. Sergey Brin is 40, Larry Page is 40 - are they really "too old" now? I think this ageism thing is going to die very soon, if it already didn't. >>> Just how long do you expect them to wait? That depends…
Where that 40 thing comes from? My observation of discussions on HN about age discrimination. (I'm not a software engineer, so I have no personal touch with that job market) If you want to improve your personal situation, you don't have to wait for that. When the top employers are actively colluding against you, maybe yes, you do. You have no power against a company worth $400B, unless you band together with your pee…
You don't have to work in a company that is worth $400B. Of course, this company may pay the best, far over what other companies do - but then your complaints about your wage being artificially suppressed sound a lot like pure greed.