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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#101

Post by gdrulia »

aasarava wrote: post #49
spindritf wrote: post #5

Yes, working from home is great. It is a luxury. Working at your own pace is also nice. But working "on the Internet" means you're also comparing yourself to the best, brightest, and driven. Then it seems like you're achieving maybe 10% of what you seemingly could be, because you're setting your own goals based on what you see out there. It's like getting stuck in traffic. You can point out that I'm sitting in climat…

So what is the hack that keeps us from constantly taking our luxuries for granted? Just as with the traffic situation, how often do we find ourselves complaining about having to do the laundry or the dishes or vacuuming or even heating up something for dinner -- all fairly small and easy tasks thanks to the help of technology, which took much more time and labor in a previous generation? Yes, it's true that the compl…

In my opinion this is wrong comparison. Simply because there is no physical obstacles that prevents you from doing what you have to do at your work, while in traffic there is plenty, hence the reason you're in traffic.

Such comparison alone distorts the view and paves the way to start to think that your minds lazy thoughts ("virtual obstacles") is actually something real, something you can't control.

In my personal experience, the moment you stop thinking about how hard it is to concentrate on a task and you start doing it, is the very moment when all those lazy thoughts disappears and you're back on empty "autobahn".

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#102

Post by aidenn0 »

throwaway812 wrote: post #30
Touche wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. We enrich "business guys" with connections to billion dollar exits while we ourselves make middle-class or slightly upper-middle class wages. Meanwhile anyone willing to take out the loans to put themselves through Dental school will eventually make more than we do and if they have the motivation to open up their own practice, much more than we do.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

You arbitrarily picked the midle tertile. There is a much bigger difference in lifestyle between the 33rd and 67th percentile or the 90th percentile and the 99th percentile than there is between the 67th percentile and the 90th percentile.

I would argue that wealth is a better measure of class than income anyway. There is an inflection point on the wealth curve, which (when you cross it) all you need to is not screw up really badly, and you will be wealthy for the rest of your life.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#103

Post by ForHackernews »

CmonDev wrote: post #7

"We shouldn’t forget that there is life outside our communities." - yes, let's not forget there are lawyers, doctors, actors, pilots, CEOs and other occupations that earn much more without having to re-learn a new API every year... Let's not forget that major companies in e.g. Silicon Valley are known for actively suppressing the salary growth. IMHO we are still underpaid and under-appreciated.

What a weird set of purported counterexamples to the inconvenience of learning new APIs.

Lawyers and doctors certainly have continuing education requirements. There are constant changes to legal codes and precedent, and advances in medical technologies and practices. In the US, if a lawyer wants to practice in a different state, they will typically have to study local laws and re-take the state bar exam.

Actors are mostly unemployed and broke, and even the successful ones are constantly memorizing new roles and auditioning for new parts. Pilots must undergo significant training and certification in order to qualify to fly different types of aircraft. CEOs have to learn about and adapt to changing business circumstances, or else the entire company could go under.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#104

Post by ForHackernews »

Touche wrote: post #96
ForHackernews wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: Don't live in California. There are plenty of well-paid software jobs in places like Boston, Chicago, Northern Virginia, Atlanta, Florida, Austin, etc. They might not have the glut of "hot" startups that Silicon Valley does, but they have much more reasonable cost of living.

What I was alluding to with my comment was that software developers create a tremendous amount of wealth while seeing little of it. That is as true outside SV as it is inside.

True, and that's a fair point, but it's basically true of all employees anywhere in a capitalist economy. Even much-reviled Wall Street traders who receive million-dollar bonuses do so while bringing in many multiples of that in revenue for their firm.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#105

Post by dragonwriter »

Touche wrote: post #96
ForHackernews wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: Don't live in California. There are plenty of well-paid software jobs in places like Boston, Chicago, Northern Virginia, Atlanta, Florida, Austin, etc. They might not have the glut of "hot" startups that Silicon Valley does, but they have much more reasonable cost of living.

What I was alluding to with my comment was that software developers create a tremendous amount of wealth while seeing little of it. That is as true outside SV as it is inside.

> What I was alluding to with my comment was that software developers create a tremendous amount of wealth while seeing little of it.

Elite workers are still workers. The people who receive most of the wealth created by workers are capitalists, not workers. There's a fairly strong ideology dedicated to preserving that state, with a name that makes that orientation quite clear.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#106

Post by cwaniak »

Touche wrote: post #23
rjknight wrote: post #12

No, we do not have luxurious jobs. Other people have really really shitty jobs. Software developers are just getting the kind of relative pay and conditions improvements that a much larger number of people took for granted in the 60s and 70s. It's everyone else who is fucked.

This. We enrich "business guys" with connections to billion dollar exits while we ourselves make middle-class or slightly upper-middle class wages. Meanwhile anyone willing to take out the loans to put themselves through Dental school will eventually make more than we do and if they have the motivation to open up their own practice, much more than we do.

97% of people want to work. Like to code. That's what they want to do. And they expect the other 3% to organize these jobs for them. Because they don't know/can't/aren't interested in organizing these jobs on their own. It really boils down to: do you want to be a craftsman or wealthy man. Because if you want to be in the 3% organizing jobs for others, you won't have any time to do coding. It's very easy to end up in the mental trap of: "I just want to code" expecting to see the prize for all the hard work. But the prize always goes to the job "organizer" or creator and not to the one doing it. Never forget that.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#107

Post by hugs »

oinksoft wrote: post #94
allochthon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By any reasonable definition, being well-off means being able to take out a mortgage on a house, afford occasional vacations to other parts of the world, invest in the stock market, support a family, put your kids through college, give to different charities, save for retirement, all in addition to helping family members in need, which one would do under any circumstances. A software developer might be able to do the…

> A software developer might be able to do these things in > California, but only barely, unless they have a very cushy > arrangement or they've ridden an exit for a startup. You can live in an affordable part of the state...there is a California outside of LA and the Bay.

I agree, and took it one step further. Even though I grew up in LA and am co-founder of an SF-based startup, I don't live there anymore. I choose to live in Chicago for a higher quality of life and lower cost of living. My attitude is thus: I'll move back to SF when I'm rich, but when I'm rich, I won't need to move back to SF.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#108

Post by aidenn0 »

samstave wrote: post #19

No, I am keenly, almost obsessively aware of how lucky I am and how fragile my situation can be. I have three kids, a stay at home wife, make a considerable salary and have a job I absolutely love and excel at. But I am still fundamentally subsisting; my living expenses are just covered by what I make and am not able to save a considerable amount. This scares the bejesus out of me because all my kids are young: I hav…

I have three kids as well, and have some small hope to offer (assuming your kids are young): once the kids are at elementary school age, the financial situation gets a bit easier. After school activities typically cost less than preschool, and your wife may be able to get part-time work at that point.

Also note: with 3 kids, there is likely no place in the US where it is cheaper to send your kids to a mediocre private school than to just move to a better school district (unless you live in a rural area where your commute would severely be affected). That's one thing that I would most like to change at a policy level, but it's something that in the short-term will affect decisions you make.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#109

Post by alex_young »

ForHackernews wrote: post #80
allochthon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By any reasonable definition, being well-off means being able to take out a mortgage on a house, afford occasional vacations to other parts of the world, invest in the stock market, support a family, put your kids through college, give to different charities, save for retirement, all in addition to helping family members in need, which one would do under any circumstances. A software developer might be able to do the…

Hint: Don't live in California. There are plenty of well-paid software jobs in places like Boston, Chicago, Northern Virginia, Atlanta, Florida, Austin, etc. They might not have the glut of "hot" startups that Silicon Valley does, but they have much more reasonable cost of living.

Another perspective:

What you get as a developer in the bay area is way better than other US cities.

I've lived in a couple of those places over the course of a decade and a half, and I can tell you that while the cost of living is lower there, so also is the pay. Significantly lower.

You figure in the relative scarcity of jobs, and you're looking at making a lot less, limited carrier mobility, and real stress when layoffs invariably roll around.

Sure, I can't buy a house here, but I certainly make a lot more than I spend and I stock that extra away. This creates something many people don't have: options.

Options like:

Being picky about jobs. Starting something on your own. Buying a house with cash somewhere else if you decide to move.

These are hard to replace outside of this bubble many of us live in.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#110

Post by aidenn0 »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #72
vehementi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 (household). What does this even mean? Median 33%? Median is 50% How can it have a range? Are you saying the 33th percentile household income in the US ranges from 30k to 62.5k depending on the state?

This means that the 33% of Americans that are "in the middle" (between the 33% with less income and the 33% with most) are in the range of 30K to 62K (Or so. I understand the data)

That is definitely what the GP thread meant, but the terminology was wrong. They wanted "percentile" median specifically refers to the 50th percentile. You could also use "tertile" (e.g. "The second tertile has income between 30k and 65k) which refers specifically to spliting into thirds.
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