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Why Programming is Difficult

joearms.github.io

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Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#101

Post by gaius »

yogo wrote: post #95
gaius wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why, when I see 22-year-old kids in interviews claiming 10 years of programming experience, that's a negative signal for me. Commercial programming is solving problems you didn't choose, in a language that's not your favourite, using existing code you didn't write, for people you would never have met outside the job, in less time than you would like. In most real situations writing the code is the easy part,…

Well there's professional experience and non-professional/hobbyist experience. In your interview you should probably clarify that. They're both different but I think there is value to the things teenager might have learned working on some toy project.

Sure, and I value that, it's how I got started myself. But the experience of working on your own projects only translates to a fraction of the work a professional programmer does.

10 years experience would put you at the level of a lead programmer, or an entry-level architect.

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#102

Post by supersystem »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #29
fit2rule wrote: post #9

Programming is difficult because people are profiting from the difficultability of it. For as long as you can give someone a money-making machine, but say that it will be 'a lot of esoteric work' to make it, grease it, keep it clean .. there will be development work. By the very nature of the business, if you are not improving something, some human-describable human activity, by using esoteric magic, you're probably…

> Programming is difficult because people are profiting from the "difficultability" of it That's backwards. Not "anyone" can program computers. Anyone can try , but most will fail. Just like "anyone" can "do math" or "do chemistry" or "do anything", but most will fail. The reason programming is lucrative, whether as an employee or entrepeneur exploiting programmers' labor (or supplying their own technical labor), is…

I see programming mostly as janitorial work. Why? Because it's mostly complex rather than hard. Of course "real programmers" are upset with RoR jockeys when it turns out businesses pay for delivered value rather than technical complexity.

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#104

Post by antics »

truthteller wrote: post #84
lutusp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I attribute this to: 1) IQ 3 standard deviations above. (...) A person with an IQ at or above 145, who is also fully conversant with reality, would know that IQ testing has a reputation nearly as bad the field of psychology that popularized the activity in the first place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man > 2) I've been practicing hard, 25 years. A person of your age should know better than to use…

"the mismeasure of man" is a garbage book by the noted fraud and liar steven jay gould. it certainly should not be used as any sort of reference on intelligence testing.

I don't know enough about The Mismeasure of Man to say whether it's correct or not, but Steven Jay Gould is about as eminent a biologist as there has ever been. The allegation that he is a "noted fraud and liar" is a pretty gross mis-estimate his work, and my personal opinion is that a misapprehension at this level makes it very unlikely that you have good reasons for believing what you do. To casual lurkers: what the user "truthteller" has just said is essentially alarmist garbage, and you should regard their claims with skepticism of a pretty high degree.

In the future, note that calling someone a "noted fraud and liar" is a very serious claim, and you should think carefully about who you level it against. It's powerful language, but used against the wrong person, will make you look silly, and not them.

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#105

Post by iqdummy »

jodrellblank wrote: post #99
iqdummy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I attribute this to IQ 3 standard deviation above..". Did you really just say that? If you're so smart why didn't you complete the sentence?

Did you really just create an account to insult someone?

I did and Hacker News made it so easy!

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#107

Post by eevilspock »

3rd3 wrote: post #77
bitwize wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paraphrasing Feynman: You do not understand "ordinary people." To you they are 'stupid fools' -- so you will not tolerate them or treat their foibles with tolerance or patience -- but will drive yourself wild (or they will drive you wild) trying to deal with them in an effective way. Find a way to do your programming with as little contact with non-technical people as possible, with one exception, fall madly in love!…

And this attitude is why humanity is doomed. Smart people sit in private and we are governed by idiots.

Technical or mathematical smarts doesn't necessarily translate to wisdom, and as many of the comments herein show, perhaps hinders wisdom.

Perhaps we are governed by idiots. Yes, I'm sure that if we were governed by people with "HN smarts" and worldview, I'm sure society would be so much better off. After all, look at all the great things Silicon Valley and startups are doing to make the world a better place!

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#108

Post by dllthomas »

lutusp wrote: post #76
sejje wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. I've never used my IQ as justification for anything, granted, but I had no idea it wasn't considered a solid measurement. I just assumed it was like most of the other tests I did well on, and filed it away. You're paying more attention to it than I am.

> I don't agree. Evidence trumps opinion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Criticism... > I've never used my IQ as justification for anything, granted, but I had no idea it wasn't considered a solid measurement. It isn't remotely a "solid measurement", in fact it's a field surrounded by justified controversy on multiple grounds. The two primary objections are that (a) the tests favor certain populat…

>> I don't agree.

> Evidence trumps opinion.

I understood the parent to be saying that they disagreed that "someone that smart would have known IQ is bogus", not that they disagreed that "IQ was bogus".

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#109

Post by bluedino »

gaius wrote: post #79
shadowfiend wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than focusing on the IQ remark, I'll mention that the entire point of this post is that programming is not just “sit[ting] down to code something”. A program written in a vacuum when you're sitting in your chair is useful to precisely one person at precisely one point in time: you, right now. When you're working on teams, under managers, within organizations, you're working to build something that's useful for…

This is why, when I see 22-year-old kids in interviews claiming 10 years of programming experience, that's a negative signal for me. Commercial programming is solving problems you didn't choose, in a language that's not your favourite, using existing code you didn't write, for people you would never have met outside the job, in less time than you would like. In most real situations writing the code is the easy part,…

As long as you're creating something, what's the difference?

Are you not an artist if you've only painted things for your own enjoyment, and never any commissioned worrk?

Re: Why Programming is Difficult

#110

Post by kyllo »

gaius wrote: post #79
shadowfiend wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than focusing on the IQ remark, I'll mention that the entire point of this post is that programming is not just “sit[ting] down to code something”. A program written in a vacuum when you're sitting in your chair is useful to precisely one person at precisely one point in time: you, right now. When you're working on teams, under managers, within organizations, you're working to build something that's useful for…

This is why, when I see 22-year-old kids in interviews claiming 10 years of programming experience, that's a negative signal for me. Commercial programming is solving problems you didn't choose, in a language that's not your favourite, using existing code you didn't write, for people you would never have met outside the job, in less time than you would like. In most real situations writing the code is the easy part,…

Maybe the kid has been contributing to open source projects? It seems like there are a lot of teenagers sending pull requests to prominent Github repos these days.
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