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Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

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101–110 of 137 posts

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#101
(I was part of a preferred AWS solution provider shop that demonstrated AWS' enterpriseness.)

Pair (US), ByteMark (UK) and Linode (global) are top choices for budget stuff. ByteMark has setup VMware boxes with freenas storage for us in the past. (For us being sysadmins, budget dedicated is way cheaper than AWS.). Pair and Bytemark support are top notch.

For enterprisey stuff self-service/remote hands/support... OpSource, SoftLayer and RackSpace.

Also the killer cost in a datacenter is power followed closely by labor, so reducing needs by using the simplest / COTS solution can be much cheaper. Servers tend to sprawl, not decrease... So cull viciously.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#102
post #52

For what many orgs need to do, a myriad of lesser-known VPS providers would be just fine, and be a fraction of the cost. But most people I've known don't investigate or educate themselves much - it's been a herd mentality towards AWS, irrespective of needs or costs (because often, it's not them paying - it's "the company"). Perhaps as a freelance consultant right now I take a sharper look at the costs involved - if a…

> if a client has, say, $50k to budget on a project, I really don't want $10k of that to go to hosting if it doesn't need to On a $50k project, how are you even dropping $10k on AWS? I've found a medium instance (~$100/mo) handles with ease 100k+ visitors/mo without breaking a sweat.

$50k/$10k is possibly a bit extreme - say $80k/$8k perhaps.

Typically when my clients do a project, they're budgeting out for the year, so that's $8k/year, not per month.

AWS would be cheaper with reserved instances, but then (IIRC) you're prepaying in advance for something you may not need. Even if it's cheaper, it's sort of defeating the purpose of "i can scale on demand". (which, yes you can still do, but you're back to 'on demand' pricing).

As someone else pointed out, some of where AWS gets you is the storage and traffic. I've got a setup right now where I need to have at peak 2-3 servers to handle traffic, as there's a moderate amount of computation going on - it's not all the time, nor every day, but when I need it, I need it. And it's processing documents (photos, etc) and we need to store them. Then show them back to the user. With on demand pricing, and the amount of traffic, this can be ~$600+ per month (*12 = ~$7000/year).

Could I optimize the code more to use less CPU, and perhaps require 1 less server? Possibly. Could I optimize some other stuff? Possibly, but that will cost more time, in order to save money with AWS.

Reserved instances would probably be the best, but if we ended up needing more later, it's harder to go back 6 months later and say "hey, we need more $ for X", as the budget was already done and processed for project Y.

I've got some projects like this at digitalocean, and one on month-to-month dedicated hardware, and the pricing is about 50%, mostly because of the built-in storage that AWS line items separately.

Can AWS do more functionally? Sure. Do we need it? Usually not, and paying for that infrastructure when it doesn't match the core needs isn't usually an option. Elastic IPs would be nice, but we could get much of that utility at linode if need be, and still pay less.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#103
post #98

While AWS can be a good solution depending on the needs and the costs/earnings ratio (for example there are companies netting tens of millions every year that have relatively limited computational requirements: if they spend 200k/year on EC2 is not the end of the world), I bet that part of its popularity is due to the following interesting feedback: at the end of the day, the sysops/devs picking EC2 are not paying fo…

AWS is best for PoC, bursting capacity, batch jobs and getting around corporate policies.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#104
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bugs me most is the false dichotomy I get when I talk about this with friends; their choice is presented as either use AWS or "hire a full-time sysadmin, buy multiple server-grade boxes and manage all this in a rented data center". I've been told Amazon is saving people "easily" $100k/year by not having to hire staff and buy expensive hardware. This absolutely hits the nail on the head. The dumb part is that the…

I've done both. In my previous startup (circa 2005) we started at The Planet (are they still around?) and within 18 months we were colocating physical servers at a nearby Level 3. I'm sure it's gotten better but when we colocated I had to project what type of traffic and storage (photos) we'd need. That led us to lease a few servers from HP. We were able to reuse hardware we owned already for reporting type tasks. Bu…

But here's the kicker. Since we started on AWS we were able to keep our costs fairly low at the beginning and as we grew we never had to make any long term projections. We simply added capacity (literally) on a weekly basis.

The exact same thing can be said for renting dedicated servers. You can add new ones at any time and it's fairly quick. This is exactly how we scaled up as well. Adding new servers day to day as required.

Yes, it takes 4 hours rather than 4 minutes but unless you are dynamically scaling up and down throughout the day in direct response to load, you are not using the versatility that you are paying for with AWS. Few people are.

Once you start to buy into the AWS ecosystem you begin to reap some serious benefits. You simply cannot think of AWS as just EC2 instances. Of course, the trade-off by going all in is some level of lock-in (though this can easily be minimized).

And there is nothing stopping you using these other cloud services without EC2. If you look around at other vendors, you might even be surprised at the prices you can get.

For example, we worked out at one point that in our case CloudFront would cost over over $50,000 per month for what we were paying about $4000 per month with a different CDN.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#105
post #93
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a client has, say, $50k to budget on a project, I really don't want $10k of that to go to hosting if it doesn't need to On a $50k project, how are you even dropping $10k on AWS? I've found a medium instance (~$100/mo) handles with ease 100k+ visitors/mo without breaking a sweat.

> I've found a medium instance (~$100/mo) handles with ease 100k+ visitors/mo without breaking a sweat. This is not really intended as a direct reply to you, but I think that price point illustrates mgkimsals point well: I have a Django-based project with about the same amount of visitors per month on an old rented vserver that costs about 7€($10)/month. Yes, you have to set up nginx once, but as mgkimsal mentioned s…

> Yes, you have to set up nginx once ...

This is the kind of thing that I've just started documenting at http://tweaked.io/

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#106

Not surprised to see this, although I am surprised more companies aren't following suit. We abandoned AWS a year and a half ago and cut our server / infrastructure costs by 90% in the process.

Yup. Folks like Netflix and Zynga are showing off how much money they are willing to spend for more potential agility. They could save a ton for predictable capacity by deploying dedicated boxes + openstack. That's where the savings are obvious, because AWS is like living at a hotel.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#107
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a client has, say, $50k to budget on a project, I really don't want $10k of that to go to hosting if it doesn't need to On a $50k project, how are you even dropping $10k on AWS? I've found a medium instance (~$100/mo) handles with ease 100k+ visitors/mo without breaking a sweat.

$50k/$10k is possibly a bit extreme - say $80k/$8k perhaps. Typically when my clients do a project, they're budgeting out for the year, so that's $8k/year, not per month. AWS would be cheaper with reserved instances, but then (IIRC) you're prepaying in advance for something you may not need. Even if it's cheaper, it's sort of defeating the purpose of "i can scale on demand". (which, yes you can still do, but you're b…

Reserves instances long-term don't make much p&l sense, it makes more sense to rent dedicated hw where most of the other costs are cheaper.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#108
post #66
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a client has, say, $50k to budget on a project, I really don't want $10k of that to go to hosting if it doesn't need to On a $50k project, how are you even dropping $10k on AWS? I've found a medium instance (~$100/mo) handles with ease 100k+ visitors/mo without breaking a sweat.

Then there's the AWS massive disadvantage in data traffic cost. Small VPS providers (or large ones for that matter) typically include 4-5 Tb of data, and their compute is no more expensive (or cheaper) than amazon. And half the customers want large pngs (because jpg at 2% "reduces quality"). I'd say only to people with 45" monitors at 5cm to their screen or less. It also produces 50% data savings. That's the biggest…

Hurricane Electric transit FTW.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#109
post #36

Public cloud is not for everyone. If you have a large number of machines that have to run all the time and are being taxed, then public cloud services do not make sense. If you are doing complex machine learning, large scale web crawling/scrapping, or generating large quantities of data (images/video/etc.) then services like AWS might not be a fit. They are incredibly awesome though for certain types of workload, but…

It's for people not making enough money (or not having the clue) to hire systems talent. If you read the Moz report, they appear to have gotten a new CEO and are now building out a datacenter presence. They spent 7MM+/yr on AWS in 2013, there is no way that won't be viciously slashed by renting racks.

That could hire 18 staff w/ solid chops in Silicon Valley and still have plenty for gear, software and vendors.

Re: Moz Dumps Amazon Web Services, Citing Expense and 'Lacking' Service

#110

Not surprised to see this, although I am surprised more companies aren't following suit. We abandoned AWS a year and a half ago and cut our server / infrastructure costs by 90% in the process.

Yup. Folks like Netflix and Zynga are showing off how much money they are willing to spend for more potential agility. They could save a ton for predictable capacity by deploying dedicated boxes + openstack. That's where the savings are obvious, because AWS is like living at a hotel.

You're assuming Netflix and Zynga are paying the prices that are published on the webpage. I'm fairly confidant that that isn't the case.
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