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Thirty Years of Mac [video]

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Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#102
post #85

It's interesting (based on the poll "tell us about your first mac") that the Programming category essentially disappears in the early 90s. This roughly corresponds to the decline and near extinction of the Mac. Having programmers leave your platform is a very, very bad thing.

I started investigating java on my first personal Mac, which was a blueberry iBook. This was end of the 90s though. In my physics lab, we used Performas to develop our software. In physics labs, Macs never really disappeared.

Still, I liked the colorful Macs a lot. They cheered up daily work. A pity, that we are back to gray boxes.

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#104

Here's the list of people and things featured: - 1984, original Macintosh - 1985, Jon Appleton, pioneer in electro-acoustical music and key figure in the development of the digital synthesizer - 1986, April Greiman, seminal figure in the New Wave graphic design movement - 1987, Theodore Gray, co-founder of Wolfram Research - 1988, Ahn Sang-soo, pioneer in Korean typography - 1989, John Knoll, co-inventor of Photoshop…

25 men. 3 women. 2 machines.

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#105

More 30 like years of personal computing...just dub "Mac" for "PC" and it's wouldn't be inaccurate except for the smiley faces. Just because these artists and engineers are talking about a Mac does not make their functions exclusive to the platform. Also, going back 30 years you have to endure some turd-Macs along the way (some brilliant ones too). Many jokes were had at the expense of our Mac brothers in the late mi…

It is certainly interesting to compare the full colour, hardware accelerated graphic, multitasking, large memory Amigas of the mid 80s with contemporary Macs... The future could have been very, very different (and arguably computing would be 5-10 years ahead of where it is now, as that was the lead Commodore had back then).

Or the Acorn Archimedes of the time, which was turning in floating point benchmarks 10x faster.

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#106
post #75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I burst out laughing at "truly worldwide democratisation of creativity". Yes, that expensive personal computer, intentionally aimed for most of its career at media and education in western markets. Expensive compared to what? Because to do the things you can do with a $1000 PC, you needed $100,000 or more before depending on the field. Your personal typesetting engine? 128-channel audio recording? With effects? Vid…

Stop being so elitist. How much money do you need to be creative? Enough to buy a musical instrument? To purchase paint and canvas? To fossick for trash to weld together? Purchase pen and paper and write a beautiful letter or short story? To grab a stick and draw in the dirt? Macs are quality bits of kit and the prime tool for making digital art, but they didn't democratise creativity, neither were they truly worldwi…

>Stop being so elitist. How much money do you need to be creative? Enough to buy a musical instrument? To purchase paint and canvas?

That's not a relevant question. It depends on what you want to do. If you want to play acoustic guitar on the streets, sure, you don't need much. That doesn't meant that everybody wanted to be creative in that way.

Some people (milions) wanted to make records like the Beatles or Kraftwerk, or Led Zepellin etc. Some even wanted to write orchestral scores like they heard from John Williams.

That you can write a song on a $20 ukelele doesn't mean that wanting to write a 5-piece band with reverbs, compressors, clean sounds and 24 channels is not a valid artistic endeavour.

That you could buy an 4-track and record some demo-quality material doesn't mean that the PC hasn't lowered to barried to entry, to the point that someone can produce in his garage/bedroom songs that could only be produced with tens of thousands of dollars of studio time.

The same with movie/video production. At best you had access to (expensive) 8 or 16mm film and mighty expensive specialist tools. Now you can have a full blown editing suite, and HD or even 4K cameras for a few thousand dollars.

>Also, 128-channel audio recording postdated the personal PC.

Postdated and made possible by the personal PC. I didn't say it appeared instantly along the PC. First there was cheap MIDI and sequencers, something that helped tens of thousands of electronic musicians.

>And the $100k pricetag is absolute rubbish. 8-track recorders weren't 6-figure investments, not to mention that machines that could record good quality audio in the 80s were categorically not $1k PCs.

This is dense. Of course "machines that could record good quality audio in the 80s were categorically not $1k PCs". NOW THEY ARE. That's my point.

Again you somehow assume that I said that all those things were made possible the very moment the PC was available -- whereas what I said is that were made possible BY the PC.

The $100,000 price tag is the equivalent of what you get, in sound mangling capacity, with a $2000 PC and a $500 DAW -- recording, reverbs, etc.

Actually, there were synths, like the Fairlight that only ultra rich artists could afford, people like Gabriel, and that costed $25,000 to buy. Now you can get the same exact specs as an $10 iPad app.

>As for CAD, sure, you got me there. But the subtext of the conversation has been artistic creativity, not engineering craft skills.

Perhaps you've been confused. Artist creativity in the sense of what options artists have to create things. Artists including industrial designers and such. Not in the sense of "how creative an artist is", e.g the quality of his output.

This is about how enmpowering the PC has been for lots of artistic endeavours. E.g not if Bach is better than Depeche Mode, but that Depeche Mode could get the sounds they wanted in the first place.

>Actually, it does. Democratisation means "everyone gets a go", not "the elites get more power".

Not really, it just means "more people than before get a go".

If something was available to X and now is available to 1000*X, that's democratization.

May I remind you that ancient Athenian democracy, one of the fullest and most direct examples of democracy in how the election body operated, excluded women and slaves?

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#107
post #105

More 30 like years of personal computing...just dub "Mac" for "PC" and it's wouldn't be inaccurate except for the smiley faces. Just because these artists and engineers are talking about a Mac does not make their functions exclusive to the platform. Also, going back 30 years you have to endure some turd-Macs along the way (some brilliant ones too). Many jokes were had at the expense of our Mac brothers in the late mi…

It is certainly interesting to compare the full colour, hardware accelerated graphic, multitasking, large memory Amigas of the mid 80s with contemporary Macs... The future could have been very, very different (and arguably computing would be 5-10 years ahead of where it is now, as that was the lead Commodore had back then). Or the Acorn Archimedes of the time, which was turning in floating point benchmarks 10x faster…

What was responsible for the Amiga ultimately failing, if it was superior in all those ways?

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is normal. They are the poster boy for a corporation despite having screwed up incredibly so many times over the years, nearly fallen off a cliff and treating their customers like crap ( "you're holding it wrong" for example) and still only maintaining a minority market share on the desktop and handset market. Also they have several system architectures and complete API rewrites over the years that mean their cl…

Windows is incredibly hampered by the desire to maintain backwards compatibility. There's a ton of ugly stuff that could have been jettisoned by now if it wasn't for the need to support some program written in 1990 for the windows 2.0 API. I agree there are many benefits to backwards compatibility, and in some cases it is warranted (though these days you can use virtual machines to achieve much the same goals). Apple…

Do you have any specific examples of how its "incredibly hampered"?

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#109
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is certainly interesting to compare the full colour, hardware accelerated graphic, multitasking, large memory Amigas of the mid 80s with contemporary Macs... The future could have been very, very different (and arguably computing would be 5-10 years ahead of where it is now, as that was the lead Commodore had back then). Or the Acorn Archimedes of the time, which was turning in floating point benchmarks 10x faster…

What was responsible for the Amiga ultimately failing, if it was superior in all those ways?

A series of business blunders by Commodore. Apple made similar blunders a decade later and barely survived them.

Re: Thirty Years of Mac [video]

#110

How come people talk about 30 years of Mac but no one talks about 25+ years of Windows or Linux for that matter. I saw numerous blog posts of parroting this advertisement, even in my morning daily commute news paper.

This is normal. They are the poster boy for a corporation despite having screwed up incredibly so many times over the years, nearly fallen off a cliff and treating their customers like crap ( "you're holding it wrong" for example) and still only maintaining a minority market share on the desktop and handset market. Also they have several system architectures and complete API rewrites over the years that mean their cl…

> Also they have several system architectures and complete API rewrites over the years that mean their client-base rewriting the entire universe every time they move the goalposts.

There have only been two instances of that: 68k to PPC and then Mac Toolbox to Cocoa. Carbon held the gap for a number of years by porting Mac Toolbox APIs to use modern things like protected memory. Both of those events were necessary and welcomed changes.

PPC to Intel was not a major rewrite for anyone except people who already knew what they were doing.

What's the problem here? Providing new APIs that reflect the advancements in software technology made in the last 45 years is a _good thing_.

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