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Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

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Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#101

Post by latj »

pinhead wrote: post #94
latj wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other question is- if you have an offer letter from Google or YCombinator in hand, would you really want to go to Brown? At Google it will be like going to grad school except you will be better funded, working with more consistently smarter people, and you will be getting paid instead of racking up debt. As a YCombinator founder you'd basically already be in the position that a Brown computer science graduate hop…

How exactly would you be racking up debt as a computer science Ph.D student? You don't pay for tuition, you get paid a pretty decent stipend + health insurance and you probably will do many industry/research internships (where you get paid very well). I say this with experience, as I am a CS Ph.D student and make more than enough to live on with a modest lifestyle and I have no debt. Plus if you get an outside fellow…

Google pays a decent salary- not the highest, but fair when considering the cost of buying a home and living in a city near a Google office. I have never heard of a Grad student getting a stipend in the amount someone who studied CS for 6-8 years should be able to get outside of academia.

I'm not saying doing a CS Phd program is not worthwhile- it still is. But, if you have an existing offer at Google or YCombinator its like going to the NBA straight out of high school. Certainly there are good reasons to go to college. But at the end of the day, if the NBA is where you're trying to get to- you take the chance when the opportunity presents itself. Grad school will always be there.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#102

Post by maximilian »

xSwag wrote: post #97

I'm almost certain that a Ph.D. in the UK takes 3-4 years max. Why does it take so much longer in USA?

You still need to do your masters, "along the way". If I remember correctly, in England, first you do you masters, and then start a PhD. 2 masters + 4-5 phd = 6.

Most European countries require a masters degree before starting, but the PhD is officially supposed to take 3 years (but usually takes 3-4+)

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#103

Post by pinhead »

flyrain wrote: post #100
pinhead wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly would you be racking up debt as a computer science Ph.D student? You don't pay for tuition, you get paid a pretty decent stipend + health insurance and you probably will do many industry/research internships (where you get paid very well). I say this with experience, as I am a CS Ph.D student and make more than enough to live on with a modest lifestyle and I have no debt. Plus if you get an outside fellow…

Get paid a pretty decent stipend + health insurance? Most Ph.D student got less than $2000/month before tax, even less than $1500/month and should pay for health insurance by themselves. OK, decent, how to define decent.

The NSF GRFP provides ~3k/month plus tuition and health insurance are covered. If you do a 3-month internship each summer on top of that you can get an extra $20k-30k easy. I am not saying you'll have the same lifestyle as a Google employee but I think it's hard to argue that you will go into debt. Maybe I live a more modest lifestyle than others. Also all the schools I got into when I applied to grad school would pay health care/tuition, that's standard.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#104

Post by jaynos »

benmccann wrote: post #14
frozenport wrote: post #11

Application looks too involved for Brown. When applying to 10 schools I wouldn't do this one because it has no overlap with my other application. I can reuse my letters of recommendation, I can't reuse this application.

I graduated quite some time ago. Getting letters of recommendation from professors would be impossible for me. I doubt I'd have one professor that knew me when I graduated let alone now years later. And yet, fulfilling these requirements would be very easy for me. I think it's very nice to have multiple routes in. Even if very few candidates avail themselves of this latter route, they might be interesting candidates…

I'm in the same boat applying to a Master Program. It doesn't help that i spent the better part of my 20's as a business owner with no boss that can write a letter for me.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#105

Post by palvaro »

latj wrote: post #101
pinhead wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly would you be racking up debt as a computer science Ph.D student? You don't pay for tuition, you get paid a pretty decent stipend + health insurance and you probably will do many industry/research internships (where you get paid very well). I say this with experience, as I am a CS Ph.D student and make more than enough to live on with a modest lifestyle and I have no debt. Plus if you get an outside fellow…

Google pays a decent salary- not the highest, but fair when considering the cost of buying a home and living in a city near a Google office. I have never heard of a Grad student getting a stipend in the amount someone who studied CS for 6-8 years should be able to get outside of academia. I'm not saying doing a CS Phd program is not worthwhile- it still is. But, if you have an existing offer at Google or YCombinator…

so you are saying that the only reason to do research in CS is to land a job at google? huh. strange.

also, won't google always be there?

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#106

Post by timburus »

skj wrote: post #98
mcguire wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly better: you don't have to actually work at Google. 80% of the benefit minus 1% of the opportunity cost.

That's a very interesting perspective on working for Google. That is, that it's a waste of time. In my experience, working at Google is a blast both in terms of compensation and exciting projects.

If you were luckier than others it doesn't necesserily make you an example to be followed.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#107

Post by cmeiklejohn »

pgbovine wrote: post #96
cmeiklejohn wrote: post #70

I think this is a very interesting idea, and I look forward to the results of the experiment! Allow me to take a moment to reiterate some of the comments I left on the Georgia Tech master's thread [1], specifically as a student who has taken graduate level computer science courses at Brown University with the majority of his experience working in industry. * I went directly into industry in 1998 working at a software…

what kind of research are you interested in for Ph.D.? i can't seem to find your academic info from your HN profile. email me if you want to chat more.

Distributed systems.

My website is located here: http://christophermeiklejohn.com.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#108

Post by pinhead »

cmeiklejohn wrote: post #107
pgbovine wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what kind of research are you interested in for Ph.D.? i can't seem to find your academic info from your HN profile. email me if you want to chat more.

Distributed systems. My website is located here: http://christophermeiklejohn.com .

If you haven't already, you should really talk to http://cs.brown.edu/~rfonseca/

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#109

Post by banachtarski »

As a person who was about to apply to PhD programs but changed my mind due to insufficient recommendations, I'm glad somebody else realizes that PhD admissions is utter bull crap.

185 dollar GRE that I can get in the 99th percentile on with ZERO studying? Grades that aren't normalized across institutions weighed heavily? Need recs from established professors who can slip in a good word for you?

Oh sorry, you were actually doing things that interested you, not necessarily things that would impress the right people. Oh sorry you took tons of hard classes at a prestigious institution and so have something less than 4.0. Oh sorry you hopped labs for a bit instead of staying with that boring CS guy that would've gotten you into any PhD program in America for 4 years. Oh sorry you spent a year or two out of college doing startup tech work without building credentials with other PhD grads but nevertheless solving research grade problems.

I've realized that the PhD admissions does not select candidates who actually want to do research. It selects candidates who want to be admitted into a PhD program. No thanks. I love science and math, and I love research, but I think the PhD application has been so harrowing for me, I won't consider it again unless drastic changes are made.

Re: Ph.D. 2.0: Rethinking the Ph.D. Application

#110

Post by pnathan »

jrs99 wrote: post #31
pnathan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm detector might be failing, but PhD work has very little to do with homework....

to get into a phd program, i mean. a phd from a "top school" means you did your homework in college and high school.

That is an interesting dilemma, yeah. To be a sharp homework-hammering undergrad is not to be a good researcher & fuzzy situation manager. It's why there's such focus on undergrad research these days, it helps identify the capable people and build their skills (as well as getting some amount of budget help).

The professor at Brown clearly enunciates some of the issues with the current system quite well.

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