Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#101

Post by guard-of-terra » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:03 PM UTC

touzen wrote: post #22

berrypicker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people will find this offensive, but it's mostly because of immigration. Sweden has a one of the most liberal immigration policies in Europe, with more and more immigrants coming in every year, and crime is increasing relatively fast. It's not just correlation: serious crime (violence, theft) is overrepresented in immigrant groups, especially African and Asian immigrants, who are also less likely to serve pr…

You are being racist. What you're saying is that immigrants are somehow more inclined to commit crimes simply because they're immigrants. That _is_ a racist statement and you're also ignoring the real reason. The reason crime is increasing is that Sweden has become a more unequal and segregated society. Immigrants have been hit harder by this development because of, for example, discrimination on the job market. So b…

They are inclined to commit crimes because they are poor and because they fit poorly. Both things are because they are immigrants.

If you bring 10 mln new immigrants into a country tomorrow, of course they will all resort to crime - you didn't provide them with a job and maybe there isn't a job for them, you didn't let them entangle with the rest of population, etc... Even when viewing from non-racist POV it should be obvious one should be very careful with bringing in large qualities of immigrants, especially poor and undereducated ones. When you do, everyone will suffer including already-integrated immigrants from previous wave.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#102

Post by angularly » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:03 PM UTC

darkbot wrote: post #66

angularly wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well thats just like your opinion, and not true at all. The problem in Sweden is the same as in Denmark only worse. The media is controlled by leftists to a degree that almost no rightwing views are ever presented. In Denmark 80% of journalists vote to the left, and we only have one or two papers who present the 55% of the population who vote on the right wing. The same is true in Sweden only worse.

d-intl.com/Tryckfrihetssällskapet have on numerous occasions invited EDL (now former) leader Stephen "Tommy Robinson" Yaxley-Lennon to speech at rallies and meetings. That's a fact. Your other statements are the typical Swedish right-wing conspiracy theory and slur that has no correlation with reality.

I dont know about Sweden, but in Denmark, it has been documentet many times, that about 80% of the journalists are left wing. Any way I got a bit off track here.

The subject at hand is that number of prisons are being reduced, while the number of crimes are exploding through the roof according to the official statistics. And that just seems a bit odd to say the least.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#103

Post by guard-of-terra » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:05 PM UTC

camus2 wrote: post #82

berrypicker wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforcing equality has historically shown to have the opposite effect. Thomas Sowell, an African American (discrimination is more prevalent in the states) has written extensively about this, as have many others regarding quotas and other forms of forced 'equality'. So no, I won't demand equality, also because I believe in the fact that employers should have the freedom to hire whoever they want without state regulati…

whatever... start by repaying the slaves 500 years of forced work without pay, then we can start talking about entitlement. Oh sorry ! you're right,they were housed and feed lol... berrypicker my a ...

Swedes didn't import any black slaves (I know of), do they still have to take part in repaying?

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#104

Post by runarb » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:05 PM UTC

draugadrotten wrote: post #3

Beware of the political spin! Note that while the number of inmates plummets, the number of crimes committed is higher than ever. This is a failure of the police and the justice system and not a success story. Nearly 95 percent of violent crimes and robberies committed in Sweden go unsolved , and an individual police officer solves an average of three crimes per year. http://www.thelocal.se/20081103/15412

Solved in such statistics may not mean what many thinks it means. Crimes where the perpetrator is known, but there is not enough evidence to take him to court are also often counted as solved.

At least here in Norway (neighbor country to Sweden), of the solved cases, about half was reported by the police itself. That normally mean that the police caught one in the act, or was them self the victim of the crime (the defendant resisted arrest, attacked or threatened a police officer etc.).

So if you are a victim of a crime, and no police officer witnesses it, it isn't very likely that the perpetrator get punished.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#105

Post by hobbe80 » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:06 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #75

jsankey wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing offensive about it, this certainly is plausible and need not be due to any inherent racial differences. But you really should back up your claims with evidence rather than copping out as in your last sentence. If anything the omission of statistics makes it more likely someone will attack you rather than debate the facts.

The statistics on this are fairly clear, but not very well published. It would certainly be possible to dig them up, but a comprehensive review would require a bit of work. You could find this in the official statistics, but newspaper folks are reluctant to compile them and put them on the front page. In Norway, the per-capita rate of violent robberies, burglaries and violent rape is overwhelmingly larger in immigran…

And yet, when you control for other biases (like income level, employment status, adult figures in household), this difference between immigrants and non-immigrants seem to disappear... almost like the defining factor is not where you (or your parents) were born, but more like your relative position in the society. Strange, huh?

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#106

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:08 PM UTC

atlantic wrote: post #28

csmuk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Nottingham in the UK's bullshit crime statistics. "Arrests fallen! Crime rates lower than ever!" Actually people just do it vigilante style or don't bother reporting it because the police are fucking useless. I mean I caught a person breaking into my car, had photos of the person doing it, the car was covered in finger prints, they arrived in another stolen car with plates that were photographed, left the…

I had a friend in Belgium who was raped in the street one evening by three young men. The police did not take much interest. There was no medical examination done. They said they would call her back to look at some pictures but they never did. I've fought off muggers several times over the years. I've never bothered to call the police, especially as the actions taken in self-defence might themselves constitute a crim…

I know it's quite a jump, but it reminds me of the video of the baby being run on by a car while nobody cared. Some people said being involved could be misinterpreted by the police causing you to be jailed or worse.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#107

Post by guard-of-terra » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:09 PM UTC

mnsc wrote: post #27

berrypicker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people will find this offensive, but it's mostly because of immigration. Sweden has a one of the most liberal immigration policies in Europe, with more and more immigrants coming in every year, and crime is increasing relatively fast. It's not just correlation: serious crime (violence, theft) is overrepresented in immigrant groups, especially African and Asian immigrants, who are also less likely to serve pr…

We in sweden also have Victim Cardigans. A type of clothing that is worn by those people who types "SD2014" in internet comment fields. This item allows the wearer to dodge discussions because the wearer is a victim of the "PK-maffia" a hypothesized shadow organization that enforces only politically correct viewpoints regarding immigration and disallows the wearer from expressing harsh "truths". In reality Sweden has…

"crime rates that seemingly correlate with immigration are better explained with class and economic/social situation than ethnicity"

You don't have to be racist, you can go all progressive: don't bring people in country that would decrease its human development level. Only bring those who will contribute and blend in.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#108

Post by madaxe » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:10 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #65

madaxe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police are there to: - Do you for speeding. - Protect the establishment. - Threaten violence. - Prop up the prison-industrial complex for the benefit of private corporations. They are categorically not there to help you. They never have been. This is a misapprehension that has been around since the days of Peel. A police force is the state's visible threat of violence against its populace, in order to exact contr…

This is not how a democratic nation is supposed to work. So please don't hold up this characterization of the police as something which is inevitable. The democratic ideal is that the police have a national monopoly on the legal use of violence, and the use of this violence is dictated by the laws and the courts. This is how well-working democratic nations work, and it is indeed how the police force in my home countr…

No, it isn't, but it appears to be the endgame of representative democracy. I'd suggest reading Hobbes' Leviathan, or perhaps Hayek's Road to Serfdom, if you haven't already, as both anticipated this exact malaise. The US and the UK are in the terminal stages of decline.

The representative democratic ideal is ultimately revealed to be a fiction, and the rule of law is a falsehood - for without a universally applied rule of law, there is no rule of law - just authoritarianism - and our rule of law is decidedly not universal, and never has been. One set of rules for us, one for them.

All representative democracy eventually declines under the same disease of creeping authoritarianism due to the inevitable desire of entrenched power structures and bureaucracies to self-sustain and expand. This should not be mistaken for malice, rather it's the inevitable output of a system optimised for self-preservation.

The only solution to my mind while maintaining a democratic ideal is either strict sortition, or direct democracy.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#109

Post by madaxe » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:11 PM UTC

csmuk wrote: post #94

marvin wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how a democratic nation is supposed to work. So please don't hold up this characterization of the police as something which is inevitable. The democratic ideal is that the police have a national monopoly on the legal use of violence, and the use of this violence is dictated by the laws and the courts. This is how well-working democratic nations work, and it is indeed how the police force in my home countr…

It is inevitable. Every society has descended into this so far, until there is a revolution. Us people in the UK realise what is happening. At some point, the moment will occur when the state oversteps the mark on something and the shit will get flipped country-wide.

Yup, just said the same as you. Hobbes and Hayek both anticipated this.

Revolution is the only way out.

Re: Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

#110

Post by jeltz » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 1:17 PM UTC

ibsathish wrote: post #64

This is a pure political gimmick to project their country as one of the safest/crime-free countries. As many have said here, Police is run by the Government and they have the right to manipulate the data. As a general statistic, if you google it, you'll know the crime rate has been increasing in the last few years. They either fell into dumb ears or they make up by letting the criminals out. What's the point?

Almost all of the increase in reported crimes is due to a few specific crimes being reported more now and population growth. Most violent crimes have been decreasing and when asking youths in surveys much fewer admit having participated in crimes compared to when I was the same age.