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What Long Hours Really Mean

wearemammoth.com

101–110 of 224 posts

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#101
post #19

Those who fail to read The Mythical Man Month are doomed to... actually, just doomed.

I'd add PeopleWare to that reading list, if only for introducing the concept that overtime is offset by "undertime".

And let's just add Slack in there for demonstrating all the benefits that not overworking people has.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#102

Every human being deserves an average of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of family/leisure, 8 hours of sleep and 2 days a week free. Even a doctor on whom many lives are depending . Lives of critical employees are just as valuable as the lives of those who are affected if they don't work harder. The whole "if I don't do this, the project will sink / things will be destroyed" is a self-imposed ransom situation that managers…

Who decided on the 5:2 ratio, where does he live and who wants to join me on an expedition to find him and physically punish him?

We deserve at least 5:4. Personally I think 4:5 would be nice. I'd get a lot done.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a law against ridiculously naive expectations of what can be achieved through the law? Ignoring a thorough analysis of unintended consequences when proposing a law should be punishable by the rack. It's so simple.

That would be a very interesting law. "It is a criminal offense to have unreasonable expectations of this law." Or did you mean "the law" as in the institution? (Also, to check, you didn't read my sarcasm as sincerity, right?)

I may have jumped the gun on that one, sorry. I'll propose a law to forbid commenting before coffee.

That said, I meant "the law" as in the institution, not individual laws.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#104
post #13

Every human being deserves an average of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of family/leisure, 8 hours of sleep and 2 days a week free. Even a doctor on whom many lives are depending . Lives of critical employees are just as valuable as the lives of those who are affected if they don't work harder. The whole "if I don't do this, the project will sink / things will be destroyed" is a self-imposed ransom situation that managers…

Where do these numbers come from that you proclaim them to be universal human standards? Why not 7 hours of work? Why not 9?

It seems people in Norway deserve just 7 hours of work/day.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#105
post #69

Every human being deserves an average of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of family/leisure, 8 hours of sleep and 2 days a week free. Even a doctor on whom many lives are depending . Lives of critical employees are just as valuable as the lives of those who are affected if they don't work harder. The whole "if I don't do this, the project will sink / things will be destroyed" is a self-imposed ransom situation that managers…

By what natural law is this true? By what will of nature or physics are you deriving your statements? Deserves? Why does anyone deserve anything? Nature itself does not act that way. People around the world deserve not to live in fear of their government killing them. Women deserve not to live in fear of being raped. Children should not live in fear of abuse. Yet untold millions starve, are beaten, tortured, abused,…

> Deserves? Why does anyone deserve anything? Nature itself does not act that way.

Deserves in the same sense that they deserve the other natural rights and protections which are afforded them within our societies. I wouldn't be quite so prescriptive about the number of hours, but being able to work in a decent and humane manner, without damaging your health, and with space for an outside life, is significantly more important than many other natural rights.

> How about those of us born into a life of privilege work harder until suffering is alleviated, until pain is removed, until equality is reached.

Work, for the vast majority of people, has no such aim, and no such outcome. If anything, people in the developed world are often in direct competition with their counterparts elsewhere.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#106

Every human being deserves an average of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of family/leisure, 8 hours of sleep and 2 days a week free. Even a doctor on whom many lives are depending . Lives of critical employees are just as valuable as the lives of those who are affected if they don't work harder. The whole "if I don't do this, the project will sink / things will be destroyed" is a self-imposed ransom situation that managers…

http://www.neweconomics.org/publications/entry/21-hours

New Economics Foundation report on a 21 hour work week

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#107
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take the numbers literally, and read it as "I believe every man deserves...". Merely an unscientific three-way split of a 24-hour day, with a liberal sleep quota and a traditional weekend. It's also the most defensible scheme against the old guard. Commuting is a different problem.

I think that "logical" three way split with weekend was big reason why that battle was won. It seems "right" and a fair divide. But at the same time it is a great obstacle moving forward the logical path to less work hours and more free time. I don't know how the 35 hour work week in France is working out but I feel that they are the anomaly and could just as easily swing back to 39/40 hrs.

Of course 8 hours at work is not really 8 hours... it's 8 hours + time for travel.

In the 8 hours for 'free time', a lot is taken up by chores etc.

I totally agree that working less makes more sense - although we are much more productive, this has not gone into working less, or even paying people more (except those at the top).

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#109
This reminds me of the section in Freakonomics[1] about how drug gangs are organised. Only the top guys actually rake in the money. The rank and file are wannabes giving their time and taking all the risk with little reward, in the hope that they'll get noticed. Ring any bells?

Funny and scary in equal measure.

*1 http://freakonomics.com/books/freakonomics/

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