"Most Americans—61 percent in the latest Pew survey—support the idea of military drones, a projection of American power that won’t risk American lives."
I sincerely hope this survey is wrong, though something tells me it isn't...
Confessions of a Drone Warrior
101–110 of 172 posts
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Drones are just like any other tools of war. " No they are not. The are risk free and relatively cheap, meaning its easier to order their use. The easier war is, the easier it is to make war. "The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real" Oh yes it does. There have been plenty of studies that clearly demonstrate this. It is always easier to press a butto…
I agree with you except for the last bit. From the accounts that I have read, I think Bin Laden's chances of surviving the Abbotabad raid was hypothetical at best. He had less than a fraction of a second to make an undeniable gesture of complete surrender in a surprise early morning raid. He could not put down a weapon because he did not have one on him. According to the SEAL who shot him, he was shot twice in the he…
>I am not arguing for or against whether he was entitled to a realistic chance, just stating that he didnt and it was by design.
I know that you aren't passing judgement yourself, but I hope that before anyone else does, they consider the fact that Bin Laden was extremely intelligent and fantastically disciplined. He was the kind of guy who ALWAYS considered every possibility. His system for remaining hidden was absolutely amazing in a world where highly educated people routinely make idiotic mistakes from an OPSEC standpoint. You could argue that air-gapping and delivering USB sticks to remote internet cafés isn't isn't impressive, but the reality is, few people stayed on top of their OPSEC like this guy did. When we did find him, it was because ONE guy on his crew fucked up, one time, after hiding for several years. The only OPSEC mistake that Bin Laden himself made was trusting a guy that had proven himself dependable for many years.
Now, when you have a really brilliant guy like this that already knows that at some point in the future, he will be found by his enemies, you have to consider the possibility that he prepared for it. Thus, when our guys rolled into the complex, they had every reason in the world to believe that either someone in the compound would be wired with explosives, or that the compound itself would be rigged. With that being a real possibility, you don't really have time to give someone a proper chance to surrender.
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#103Relevant and worth reading:
http://www.livingunderdrones.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/...
It's not just that the drone strikes are killing civilians in large numbers, and that the administration defines "militant" as any young adult male and doesn't really care who they're killing. It's not just that the whole thing makes a mockery of due process and national sovereignty. It's not just that the policy is counter-productive in terms of its own stated aims ("fighting terrorism"). It's that grave damage is done to the entire social fabric of the targeted area, as if they didn't have enough problems.
EVERYBODY living there knows they could get randomly blown up at any time and there's nothing they can do about it. People are afraid to gather in groups of more than 2. Normal funerals are impossible, both because the the bodies are so completely destroyed and because funerals are deliberately attacked. People don't rescue victims because they know they'd just get killed, too. People stay away from the sites of the attacks for hours. The families of victims struggle because the main wage earner for the family is gone. Parents take their children out of schools, and children in schools are too traumatized to focus on studying.
It's all good as long as our brave soldiers never have to face someone that can fight back, right? Susan Sontag was absolutely right that we're being infantilized. Of course it's easier and cheaper to kill people with flying death robots. Of course it's easier to catch "the bad guys" if we just make sure we know everything about everybody all the time. What's missing is any sense of pride that we're too good for those things and we'll accept trade-offs for freedom like adults. The cost of due process is that some criminals go free. The cost of free speech is that obnoxious people we can't stand will say things we don't like.
Given how little terrorism there actually is, giving up ANY freedoms or principles in the name of "stopping terrorism" is cowardly. It's as if the military-industrial complex has no pride in "American values" whatsoever.
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it is a good thing. When you have to be violent it is always better to have the edge. (quote from a special ops friend - in close quarters wins the one with more ammunition) What you have problem is the ease with which US deploys stuff and not the fact that there are less corpses coming home. So change Washington. Not the drones.
When violence is easy, "having to be violent" will be more and more common, until .. eventually .. you arrive at the point of view you espouse: war is okay, as long as its easy.
Violence is less common now than it has ever been in all of human history. How can you square this fact with your statement about how "having to be violent" will be more common?
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#105From the article:
>And yet the very idea of drones unsettles. They’re too easy a placeholder or avatar for all of our technological anxieties—the creeping sense that screens and cameras have taken some piece of our souls, that we’ve slipped into a dystopia of disconnection. Maybe it’s too soon to know what drones mean, what unconsidered moral and ethical burdens they carry. Even their shape is sinister: the blunt and featureless nose cone, like some eyeless creature that has evolved in darkness.
I'm not sure how to feel about drone warfare myself but I think the media spinning narratives like the above (note that this comes from the author and not the subject of the article) only serves to legitimize disliking drone warfare on emotional grounds. That is an undesirable thing, if only because it discourages people from even considering the downsides to the alternatives.
This satirical piece titled What if drone warfare had come first? might serve as a counterpoint: https://squid314.livejournal.com/338607.html (scroll down to the italicized description the scene). It may seem way over the top, especially in contrast with the OP article, but I think it gets the point across pretty well.
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#106Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…
The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…
Would you help me understand something?
The doctrine of mutually assured destruction is what keeps countries from launching nukes at each other. In order to have that doctrine in place, we need people in the military who are willing to launch nukes, and that military needs to be firmly under the control of the civilian government.
In that context, was your objection to fire any nuke a personal decision, i.e. you personally wouldn't be comfortable with ending so many lives (who would?) or was it a wider objection, i.e. you feel it's immoral for any military personnel to be willing to launch nukes? If it's the former, then I totally understand. But if it's the latter, would you help me understand how to reconcile that belief with the necessity of mutually assured destruction? They seem to be at odds.
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…
Would you help me understand something? The doctrine of mutually assured destruction is what keeps countries from launching nukes at each other. In order to have that doctrine in place, we need people in the military who are willing to launch nukes, and that military needs to be firmly under the control of the civilian government. In that context, was your objection to fire any nuke a personal decision, i.e. you pers…
It is quite possible to believe in the necessity to have a military without believing in the doctrine of mutually assured destruction or the use of nuclear weapons.
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#108Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…
I found the delocalization of killing a pretty big difference. I think most of war is justified by the fact that you're risking your life on site, a distorded 'kill or get killed' excusing the its absurdity, the emotional rush of surviving makes the act acceptable for some time. On the other hand, sitting comfy at home and triggering death is a pretty dissonant concept that makes people rethink being at war. Often veterans run away from war, with time they concluded about its nonsense, here people experience this right away.
Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…
Why did you join the Navy in the first place? Or did you come to realize your moral conflict only after you were already in?
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Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…
Would you help me understand something? The doctrine of mutually assured destruction is what keeps countries from launching nukes at each other. In order to have that doctrine in place, we need people in the military who are willing to launch nukes, and that military needs to be firmly under the control of the civilian government. In that context, was your objection to fire any nuke a personal decision, i.e. you pers…
I personally believe that Jesus calls us to "love our enemies" and that this means not killing them for any reason whatsoever. My personal objection to war goes far beyond the whole nuke thing to even self defense.