Live data from Hacker News

Natural born programmers

programmingisterrible.com

101–110 of 113 posts

Re: Natural born programmers

#101

I am one of these folks that claims natural math/development skills which were inherited from my natural parents. Here is my empirical evidence: I was neither raised by or knew my biological family growing up (though I know them now). My mother is a developer, my supposed bio-dad is a developer, my late grandmother on my mother's side was a mathematician & psychologist, my grandfather on my mother's side was on the e…

One individual is not 'empirical evidence.'

I would say that any number of individuals "after the fact" are kind of weak as evidence. The very best empirical science is making a prediction of some new thing we've never seen before, and then testing the prediction.

So we don't dig up a bunch of bones and look for evidence that dinosaurs evolved into birds, we predict that if we dig, we will find something that looks a little like a dinosaur and a little like a bird, and then we dig.

Re: Natural born programmers

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if determination is also significantly inborn? > Broad genetic influence on the five dimensions of Neuroticism, Extraversion, Openness, Agreeableness, and Conscientiousness was estimated at 41%, 53%, 61%, 41%, and 44%, respectively. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8776880

It's important to remember that responsible researchers on behavior genetics (such as the researchers that I am about to quote here, from a review article) point out that just because an individual difference is "inborn" (heritable) does NOT mean that it cannot change under environmental influence. "Moreover, even highly heritable traits can be strongly manipulated by the environment, so heritability has little if an…

> just because an individual difference is "inborn" (heritable) does NOT mean that it cannot change under environmental influence

On the flip side, just because a feature isn't heritable, doesn't mean it can be changed through an environmental intervention. Many people assume that what isn't strictly genetic, must me malleable but there may be more than a fair bit of just randomness there or hard to alter circumstances (pre-natal environment, remnants of infections).

Re: Natural born programmers

#104
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is HIS empirical evidence. It's his evidence based on his observation.

It's a meaningless observation. One anecdote is not statistically relevant.

Self-reports typically don't even count as one data point, because they're notoriously unreliable. Reports about one's childhood and motivations, doubly so. There's a reason psychology as a science is no longer based primarily on introspection, as it was in the 19th century.

Exceptions if people's self-conceptions are what is actually being studied; in that case collecting self-reports can be legitimate data-collection.

Re: Natural born programmers

#105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One individual is not 'empirical evidence.'

Individuals and stories are part of good conversation. Skraushaar's comment was relevant and enjoyable. Reflexive ideological dismissals, on the other hand, are just tedious.

Absolutely. For conversational value, it's great. But in a discussion about empirical research, it's misleading at best.

Re: Natural born programmers

#106
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how it would be disappointing if you didn't have two children growing up in the same environment and the differences between them is the same as between night and day. Not that I'm saying these type of studies are not useful.

Anecdotes are still not data, no matter how snarky you are. Hint: your claim AND the study can both be true.

I don't believe I said otherwise. Hint: I agree with you.

Re: Natural born programmers

#107

I am one of these folks that claims natural math/development skills which were inherited from my natural parents. Here is my empirical evidence: I was neither raised by or knew my biological family growing up (though I know them now). My mother is a developer, my supposed bio-dad is a developer, my late grandmother on my mother's side was a mathematician & psychologist, my grandfather on my mother's side was on the e…

What you have described sir, is an anecdote.

Re: Natural born programmers

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did I mischaracterize it? From my post: "The article provides lots of evidence that women react badly to this belief..." Do you disagree that the original author characterizes the belief as false, in addition to destructive?

The effect is not specific to women. The paper he linked is, but it also has a bibliography. I'm not wasting any more time debating this with you. Cheers.

[deleted]

Re: Natural born programmers

#110
post #17
post #5

Nature or nurture. Programming is a highly skilled trade, requiring creative thinking. It's like a combination of engineering and writing prose. While genetics no doubt plays some role, much larger are the attitudes and aptitudes a child learns in their formative years (mostly before school age.) Everybody can learn to program, but not everyone has the attitudes that will make them well suited to it. You're not born…

> much larger are the attitudes and aptitudes a child learns in their formative years (mostly before school age.) Sorry, but... citation needed. I think the point the article tries to make is that there is no substitution for good old hard work: not your preschooling (or preschool parenting), not your genes, not the colour your bedroom walls were painted: dedication to improving your skills always wins. > People who…

I don't doubt that socializing not only makes you a more rounded person, but is necessary as well.

However, I'd bet you anything I'm in a different league compared to you when you were 29, because I spent most of my 20's learning and coding (about 50K LOC/year on average across 20 languages.)

There's no substitute for putting in the time. However, who I was permitted me to make those choices while most of my peers made choices more similar to yours. So in a sense, there is a very real effect that's out of your control and probably goes back to your childhood.

Post reply on HN