Why I gave up my US passport • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#101

Post by hrasyid » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 7:18 AM UTC

rodgerd wrote: post #97

hrasyid wrote: post #56

Is there any historical examples of a representative democratic country simplifying its tax code? How was it done? The United States have been around for centuries, and each elected governments and congresses have their own idea about how the tax code should look like. Probably that's why now we have very complicated system, because it's the aggregation of centuries' worth of ideas. The logical step is to simplify it…

New Zealand has dramatically ( dramatically !) simplified our tax for ordinary (salary/wage employees), especially in the 1980s and 1990s. Given the period was one of dramatic economic and social change I doubt most Kiwis could give you a remotely impartial account (myself included); a couple of key elements that appear to be completely absent in the US culture are: 1/ A willingness to accept loophole losses. I have…

Nice example.

>>Many US progressives/lefties I've spoken with seem to react with suspicion and horror at the idea of being able to have the IRS estimate your taxes on your behalf

I felt the opposite when I first heard that US tax system was too complicated. What I know before about filing tax was simply 1) approve my employer's filing about my salary 2) declare child and donation. How complicated could that be?

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#102

Post by snowwrestler » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 7:19 AM UTC

hrasyid wrote: post #56

Is there any historical examples of a representative democratic country simplifying its tax code? How was it done? The United States have been around for centuries, and each elected governments and congresses have their own idea about how the tax code should look like. Probably that's why now we have very complicated system, because it's the aggregation of centuries' worth of ideas. The logical step is to simplify it…

The U.S. greatly simplified its tax code in the late 1980s, in an era of divided government at that. Its complexity has increased since then as subsequent Congresses have tinkered with the tax code.

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#103

Post by jacalata » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 8:52 AM UTC

mathrawka wrote: post #85

anologwintermut wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The point of the requirement is to subsidize the health care you will get if they find you unconscious, naked in a ditch without ID and can't tell if you are wealthy enough to pay or not. Absent insurance, that privilege is paid for by the higher prices charged to people unlucky enough to need healthcare. Now, if you can't get plans that consider the fact that you are only in the US for < 100 days a year,…

As an American that lives abroad, whenever I visit the US I make sure I always have traveler's insurance for myself and all my dependents that are traveling with me. Last year I was in the US for a over 100 days, and my traveler's insurance was valid for every second. It shouldn't matter how many days you are in the US or not, it should matter where you declare your tax home.

Given that the answer links to a document on tax status for expat citizens, I wouldn't be surprised if it has more conditions that work out about the same as tax status. (i didnt read the linked doc to find out).

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#104

Post by ajmurmann » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 4:46 PM UTC

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #78

nmridul wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxing is mainly to pay for the facilities that the Government is providing you currently. That is the reason why vast majority of the countries (99% ?) are taxing based on physical presence. So if you are out of the country for most of the time during the last year, then you don't pay tax.

US is immigration based. 60% of New York City population wasn't even born in the USA. Wouldn't you think that in this circumstance a substantial number of them could avoid taxation by living more than 6 months abroad even though their income would be generated in the US? I'm a dual Polish/US citizen. Easy scenario: remote work in US for $100k+ a year while residing all that time in Poland. That's why they have it. Th…

That's a problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with citizenship. Rather with residency vs. place of work. It's a problem every European country faces (work in France, live in Germany for example) and still none of them motivate their citizens to abandon their citizenship when they live abroad. I am a German living in the US and I have no downside of being a German citizen. As a green card holder the only thing that I cannot do is vote. It would be nice to become a US citizen one day, but given the huge downside of the tax burden if I ever decide to ant to live somewhere else for a while is a big deterrent for me.

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#105

Post by LekkoscPiwa » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 5:37 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #104

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is immigration based. 60% of New York City population wasn't even born in the USA. Wouldn't you think that in this circumstance a substantial number of them could avoid taxation by living more than 6 months abroad even though their income would be generated in the US? I'm a dual Polish/US citizen. Easy scenario: remote work in US for $100k+ a year while residing all that time in Poland. That's why they have it. Th…

That's a problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with citizenship. Rather with residency vs. place of work. It's a problem every European country faces (work in France, live in Germany for example) and still none of them motivate their citizens to abandon their citizenship when they live abroad. I am a German living in the US and I have no downside of being a German citizen. As a green card holder the only thing…

> It's a problem every European country faces (work in France, live in Germany for example) and still none of them motivate their citizens to abandon their citizenship when they live abroad.

What I'm saying is that it is practical and pragmatic for the US to have this law. It's not for Germany. Why? Because the number of immigrants in the US is extremely high.

Was US to implement the same law Germany has then 60% of New Yorkers would be able to avoid paying income tax in the US. Not that all of them would do that, but just saying. US has this special circumstance of having a big chunk of their population with 2 passports. Not 10% like in Germany, but 60% like in New York. Then you have to enact a law to discourage people from taking advantage of their 2nd citizenship in terms of taxes, or nobody would pay, they would just stay over 6 months in their mother countries whenever that's convienenient (i.e. reaching retirement age).

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#106

Post by LekkoscPiwa » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 5:40 PM UTC

philiphodgen wrote: post #84

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do it with Turbo Tax for 50 bucks. The thing is not to open an account outside of the US. If you follow that rule you are fine and your return won't be longer than US return. If you really, really need that account in a foreign bank simply don't advertise left & right you are an US citizen and open an account using your local (German, Canadian, whatever) driver's license. I have lived in Poland 3 years so far with…

The strategy of using your local ID (and hiding your U.S. status) will work for a little while longer. Google for the acronym "FATCA". Sooner or later your bank will ask you to certify that you have no U.S. connections. No, the real key to keeping your paperwork simple is to keep the balance in all of your non-U.S. bank accounts below USD 10,000 at all times. The form is TD F 90-22.1. Your U.S. tax return should be v…

> Google for the acronym "FATCA". Sooner or later your bank will ask you to certify that you have no U.S. connections.

Trust me. In Poland. It won't. Why? Because I'm a native here and nobody knows that I have US citizenship too. It's like saying that in your US bank branch you will be asked if you have no Polish connections. No, they won't. They want their business. And on top of that there is no way for them to know.

Re: Why I gave up my US passport

#107

Post by LekkoscPiwa » Wed, Oct 02, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

philiphodgen wrote: post #84

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do it with Turbo Tax for 50 bucks. The thing is not to open an account outside of the US. If you follow that rule you are fine and your return won't be longer than US return. If you really, really need that account in a foreign bank simply don't advertise left & right you are an US citizen and open an account using your local (German, Canadian, whatever) driver's license. I have lived in Poland 3 years so far with…

The strategy of using your local ID (and hiding your U.S. status) will work for a little while longer. Google for the acronym "FATCA". Sooner or later your bank will ask you to certify that you have no U.S. connections. No, the real key to keeping your paperwork simple is to keep the balance in all of your non-U.S. bank accounts below USD 10,000 at all times. The form is TD F 90-22.1. Your U.S. tax return should be v…

Well, all my income comes from the US too. The only time I worked about 6 months for Polish branch of Intel in Poland, it was easy like piece of cake. I did it with Turbo Tax.

I just can't take seriously anyone claiming that somehow US taxation is worse than that of the EU and the same goes with dealing with burocracy in general. It is MUCH worse in the EU. Just had to pay 1,000 EUR of fine on a border for 'smuggling' a MacBook I bought on a trip to the US. And that's on top of the VAT and other taxes. So, not really sure what all that BS is all about. Because when you compare EU to the US, EU leaves its population just with enough money to pay for day-2-day living expenses and not much more. HORRIBLE!