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How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

atroche.org

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Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#101

Post by Volpe »

willvarfar wrote: post #85
Volpe wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History is written by the victors. North korea didn't believe the UN/US (i.e. Non-koreans) should be deciding the fate of their country. (I am in no way defending the current North Korean regime). I completely understand a sovereign nation attacking a 'puppet state' in order to unify it. (to respond to the grand parent as well) If the Russians were 'boycotting' the UN, then it wasn't the UN, it was just "The Allies".

It was a whole bunch of nations, united.

Are you suggesting that an alliance (between nations) is equivalent to the United Nations?

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#102

Post by Sandman »

troels wrote: post #88
victorf wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you are being facetious or not, but I think all religious teachings for children count as brainwashing.

Alao if the religious beliefs are agnosticism? Basically, by this definition, all parenting is brainwashing.

Not if you teach your children critical thinking and to base their opinions on something provable.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#103

Post by marshray »

pintglass wrote: post #73
pintglass wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say most news media and many T.V. shows reinforce ideas that oppose accepting that there is an alternative viewpoint. Are you sure you haven't been brainwashed to hate Fox News and anything that shows a flag and an eagle with patriotic music in the background? Let's try this on for size: Is Fox News racist, elitist, sexist, and homophobic? My guess is that you just answered yes to at least 3 of those, however if…

To provide the other side of that coin, I also think that some of what Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. push is bologna. Consider the conservative view that we need to secure our border because illegal immigrants take jobs away from Americans. Jobs aren't taken, they are given. Those jobs are not specifically given to illegals. You could have one, too. If they can live off of those jobs and send money home to their folk…

Your point was a lot more coherent before "the other side of that coin".

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#104

Post by Volpe »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #74
Volpe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a false dichotomy (as I tried to explain earliar). It isn't capitalism vs communism. Capitalism is a form of economy, communism is form of government. The mix of those, I believe china call it: "Socialism with chinese characteristics". The fact primary industry and exports are state owned is a big tick for: Communism. That's true, regardless what you see living there. (People making money and doing busi…

Primary exports are not owned by the government, that is mostly private. Primary imports in natural resources domestic oriented businesses might be state owned, as are companies that produce primarily for the domestic market (like SOE JV car manufacturers). All those little factories that produce for export are very private. The communist party doesn't really follow any tenants of Marxism at all. Most are only concer…

> Most are only concerned with propping up their families and embezzling enough money to send their kids to a nice school abroad that doesn't suck.

You've just described "people in power" world wide. It isn't unique to communism, or china.

A huge amount of their economy is state owned[0]

That alone is a tenant of marxism. I'm not particularly interested in "true scotsman" style argument regarding is China 'really communist', as you can easily make the case that the U.S isn't technically a democracy, but it doesn't get us anywhere. It's just an argument of semantics.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State-owned_enterprises...

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#105

Post by omegant »

troels wrote: post #88
victorf wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you are being facetious or not, but I think all religious teachings for children count as brainwashing.

Alao if the religious beliefs are agnosticism? Basically, by this definition, all parenting is brainwashing.

I would say that the oposite is true. Brainwashing takes the same mecha isms that we use as humans to be able to learn our how to behave in the society, and how to learn to be a person. I have small kids and they are like empty disks looking for something to copy. They copy behaviours that sourround them and make them part of their personality.

Adults just slow down the writting but we always try to fit in the social group that we are living. And that includes political opinions, faith, etc...

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#106

Post by marshray »

andyl wrote: post #13

Brainwashed? If that is brainwashing, then it seems like there's brainwashing everywhere you look. For example: - http://www.foxnews.com/ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBbBfrKsVqY

Really? A sappy slide show set to Lee Greenwood with 316,000 views over 4 years is comparable to a Communist POW camp.

If that's brainwashing, then what do you call this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4 101,912,811 views.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#107

Post by Volpe »

philwelch wrote: post #83
Volpe wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History is written by the victors. North korea didn't believe the UN/US (i.e. Non-koreans) should be deciding the fate of their country. (I am in no way defending the current North Korean regime). I completely understand a sovereign nation attacking a 'puppet state' in order to unify it. (to respond to the grand parent as well) If the Russians were 'boycotting' the UN, then it wasn't the UN, it was just "The Allies".

North Korea's fate was decided by the Soviets just as much as South Korea's was by the US. There were even Soviet pilots flying in the North Korean air force in the Korean War. The Soviets didn't have the ironclad control over North Korea that they had over Eastern Europe, but they certainly weren't any less involved than the US was in the South.

That's a pretty good point. They were essentially both puppets of the large powers, and the war pretty much a proxy war.

But that makes the POWs change of attitude less brainwashy and more 'informed' in my opinion.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#109

Post by coob »

asveikau wrote: post #67
gruseom wrote: post #2

Cialdini's book is one of the best and most readable pieces of popular science writing ever. It's fascinating from start to finish, frequently hilarious, and pretty hard to summarize because there's so much cool stuff in it. The brainwashing scare from the Korean War is central to at least one classic movie, The Manchurian Candidate (1962). It was unavailable for 25 years, which rumor had it was because of its simila…

For the record The Manchurian Candidate was a book before it was a movie. I read the book once long ago but don't remember much about it. In contrast the imagery of the movie is very hard to forget.

Also if anyone is thinking of watching the 2004 remake/'re-imgainging' … don't bother.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#110

Post by VanillaBooks »

I disagree with the _utility_ of the article's conclusion - "keep the facts in mind when you are asked to do things". Basically it says - be in control of what you do. Or, we are always a step or two behind (we only realize later what happened in a certain situation). So what you do when somebody applies a technique on you, which you don't know yet, in a situation in which you are caught, which you don't yet realize it fully (this perhaps comes later, or never)? I hint that the solution is more about what you do in general when you don't know things, than what to do to know them beforehand (which i think it's impossible). How is one grown to deal with the unknown, without resorting to the "you must also recognize this situation as this or that"
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