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Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

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101–110 of 132 posts

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#101
post #89

This got my heart beating. There is actual rebellion among academics, and a movement to restore trust in both people and tech. This is the NY Times quoting Matt Green of John Hopkins in the article: “I know from firsthand communications that a number of people at N.I.S.T. feel betrayed by their colleagues at the N.S.A.,” Mr. Green said in an interview Tuesday. Thats pretty strong sentiment. Seems to echo the bitterne…

Yes, Prof. Green posted a critical post about the NSA, and then JHU asked him to remove the post from their servers[1]. I'm stunned; academic freedom is evidently an illusion in some parts of the US. How deeply have our academic institutions been co-opted by the intelligence community? 1. JHU then had a dean apologize, but it was almost certainly only a reaction to the negative publicity that ensued: https://twitter.…

There's also the CIA Officer in Residence program, which I actually think is great because you get to meet people with IC experience who can point you in the direction of all sorts of cool unclassified tech.

And of course the quickly retracted notices not to read the Wikileaks cables if we ever wanted a security clearance that went out to all the Ivies, which were not so great. I believe Columbia was even stupid enough to email instructions to their students not to read vital source material if it came from Wikileaks.

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#102
post #35

Before reading this, bear in mind, you wont find many more critical of government than me....That said I have to ask the following: How can any government accept a situation where communications are so secure that none of their agencies can break it? Essentially law enforcement do need to investigate crime. That has to be right and good for all. Even this anarchist accepts this. Such a situation is fine for "us", and…

> How can any government accept a situation where communications are so secure that none of their agencies can break it? The way they accept every other fact of life that they cannot change. The genie is out of the bottle now. Strong encryption exists; government cannot break it, and "bad actors" will use it. Law enforcement do need to investigate crime, but they need to do it in the real world not in the world of ma…

I like your thoughts because they pay respect to the fact that (current) governments are NOT foundationally correct entities. They are socially-constructed approximations of justice which aid our human existence, but are not fundamentally infallible as, say, the laws of physics.

Government should be a last-ditch effort to maintain the long-term survivability of our species.... However, so many people (cough Apple) treat laws as a list of the most disrespectful circumstances and violent actions they can do without repercussions.

We can deny the existence of strong crypto no more than we can deny the existence of Plutonium. Any government that can't regulate around that has no justification for our support and any population that can't survive the gifts of Prometheus has no justification for survival.

If we're to levitate above the point we're at now (compromised security, virtual concentration camps, etc.), we've got to develop our culture such that there is no incentive to use strong crypto for gain. We've got to stop pushing ourselves into such dense living quarters. We've got to further lower our reproduction rate. We've got to stop buying into celebrity and corporate culture....

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#103
post #37

Every standards body that is even remotely financed by governments or companies is a lie. ( http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecm... ) Committees rulings are a lie. ( http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm ) Even the most seemingly reasonable regulations are a lie. ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Truth-About-Drug-Companies/dp/0375... ) The sooner people realize there's no other option other than…

Who gets to vote in a direct democracy? My parents don't know anything cryptography, and are likely to base their decision on others, or even worse, a news source. Right there, our parents outnumber us 2:1. Why should I trust the rest of America, who largely gets their information from media companies designed to optimize for ratings, on matters pertaining to cryptography?

Indeed, it would not be long before the press makes the case that 0% tax for media would be awesome for everybody. "There would be no commercials!", "Think of the children, we can make quality programs with more cash!" etc. etc.

Direct democracy is not a solution. The solution is the thing we're doing now. The system works in the sense that we're righting it by having this kerfuffle about the secrecy. And something will change, and then the issue will be forgotten for awhile and the story will repeat.

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#104
"N.I.S.T. attributed the allegations to confusion and noted that it was required, by statute, to consult with the N.S.A."

I think they'll find it is difficult to "restore confidence" if they are required to "consult" with those responsible for the lack of confidence.

At least, I hope so. Whitewash and time are marvelous.

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#105
post #53

This got my heart beating. There is actual rebellion among academics, and a movement to restore trust in both people and tech. This is the NY Times quoting Matt Green of John Hopkins in the article: “I know from firsthand communications that a number of people at N.I.S.T. feel betrayed by their colleagues at the N.S.A.,” Mr. Green said in an interview Tuesday. Thats pretty strong sentiment. Seems to echo the bitterne…

“I know from firsthand communications that a number of people at N.I.S.T. feel betrayed by their colleagues at the N.S.A.,” Mr. Green said in an interview Tuesday. That's the understatement of the century. NIST is pissed off. Many of these guys move fluidly back and forth from NSA, and clearly they were kept in the dark.

"Many of these guys move fluidly back and forth from NSA..."

This isn't regarded as a problem?

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#106
post #35

Before reading this, bear in mind, you wont find many more critical of government than me....That said I have to ask the following: How can any government accept a situation where communications are so secure that none of their agencies can break it? Essentially law enforcement do need to investigate crime. That has to be right and good for all. Even this anarchist accepts this. Such a situation is fine for "us", and…

How can you expect a government to accept a situation where it cannot compel a criminal suspect to provide evidence against himself?

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#107
post #35

Before reading this, bear in mind, you wont find many more critical of government than me....That said I have to ask the following: How can any government accept a situation where communications are so secure that none of their agencies can break it? Essentially law enforcement do need to investigate crime. That has to be right and good for all. Even this anarchist accepts this. Such a situation is fine for "us", and…

> How can any government accept a situation where communications are so secure that none of their agencies can break it?

A government by and for the people accepts it because the people accept it.

What a government _is_, of course, a philosophical question. The American Constitution treats government as an agreement among people, and structures that agreement to withhold particular powers from that agreement.

It does _not_ withhold these powers in recognition of some divine grant or innate possession of 'rights', but because it anticipates these powers make the government dangerous to the people governed. Given those powers, the people in government would inevitably abuse them, and would over time evolve into a faction or class to themselves, striving to retain control of the government for their own purposes and to the neglect of the people's.

A government that can consistently and without consequence exceed the powers allotted to it by the people governed will inevitably become an aristocracy, and a tyranny, unless those excesses are checked.

(There are other visions of what a government is. vidarh's comment on this subthread is the best account of anarchism I've read -- really smart -- saying that government is necessarily a class instrument that ought to be weakened or destroyed because it inevitably serves the strong economic interest.)

Of course, those limits make it harder for the government to pursue the people's interests. But the point is that those short-term deficiencies are a wise trade over the long-term, over which an unbounded government would transform into tyranny.

Surely the government can do a better job preventing the next 9/11 bombing if it has all these surveillance powers. But I'm not nearly as worried about such bombings as I am about how the government has already transformed beyond our control, and how much further it could go. I am very sure that 99.99% of us opposed to political terrorism can defeat the 0.01% using it, even while we tie our own hands in some ways for our own long-term protection. It's true that the technology of WMD have increased the potential leverage and destructiveness of that 0.01%. It's also true that we haven't hardly started thinking about how we, as a society, meet and check that expanded threat. I'm confident we'll figure it out. And even if we don't, the possibilities of that violent minority aren't nearly so dangerous or likely as those of an unchecked government.

So how can any government accept such limits? Because it is _us_, and we recognize that those limits best ensure our safety and that of our kids.

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#108
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see how they dramatically improve the process then. I hope they don't think statements like "we didn't do it, trust us" are enough. But it's probably best to just forget about NIST and start from scratch with a new standards body with zero influence from the government - any government(how it should be).

Almost by definition, a standards organization would have some form of government (lowercase g) running it. What would you suggest as an alternative? Wikistandards? Even a wiki has government.

That's "governance", not "lower-case-g-government"

Re: Government Announces Steps to Restore Confidence on Encryption Standards

#110

It's too fucking late. Government, we don't trust you anymore. You're not a part of us. For once, I'm ashamed of being an American.

Well, that's silly. All of our "Freedom!"-loving allies seem to be in on this. UK, Australia, Sweden, etc. This article mentions that the standards process was being run by Canada, and the Canadians were "finessed" by the NSA. Canada? Really? And, of course, the non-"Freedom!" countries do this also. The only difference between the US and all the other countries is the amount of smarts, work, and money the US is putt…

You notice that France, our Oldest Ally, is not on the list.
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