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N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#101
Out of humor and a bit of worry, I had previously posed a conspiracy theory that the NSA/etc. had undermined (coerced, compromised, whatever) the Internet's certificate authorities. I no longer am comfortable dismissing it as silly humor. I worry that such a theory has about equal parts merit as not.

I now want viable open source web-of-trust encryption for the web as soon as possible.

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#103

This is likely a minority view, but I have no problem with the NSA being able to break encryption, that's in fact part of their job. Decoding encryption has long been part of their mission. I also suspect they're not alone in terms of signals intelligence groups in having this capability. The issue to me has always been how and what data they access and store, and how it is used.

It's definitely great knowing that our government is willing and able to commit pretty serious industrial espionage, and if anyone tries to do anything about it, hey, we have nukes too. Don't worry everyone, we're the good guys! We promise to send you some foreign aid after you've come to terms with your subjugation. /s

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#104
post #68

This is really damaging. Not only will this cause other countries to put up barriers against US (and UK) services and products, it's going to affect uptake of standards developed here. On the lighter side, a treasure hunt was just announced. Can you find one of these vulnerabilities, or evidence of the NSA having attacked a particular system to steal keys? ---- [Edit 1] Some speculation: By careful hardware design --…

One of the vulnerabilities was already discovered by researchers in 2007: http://rump2007.cr.yp.to/15-shumow.pdf

At the time, it wasn't clear if this was a deliberate backdoor or an accident, but it was proven that there there was a possibility that there was a secret key that would allow someone to predict future values of a pseudo random number generator based on previous values. Now it looks pretty clear that it was a deliberate backdoor.

This really reduces trust in US based cryptographic standards. And US based cryptographic hardware, as they mention in the article that they convinced hardware manufacturers to insert backdoors for hardware shipped overseas.

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#105

What's truly frightening is this line from the Guardian's article on the topic: > The NSA describes strong decryption programs as the "price of admission for the US to maintain unrestricted access to and use of cyberspace". What does that even mean? That statement is at the same time paranoid, arrogant, and subtly threatening. It's as if to say that without the ability to decrypt interesting traffic, the NSA would be…

It means there are two choices for America's participation in the global internet: decryption capabilities or America's Great Firewall.

The statement implies that in the absence of "strong decryption programs" then there would be only restricted access to and use of cyberspace. I'm sure the intelligence leadership in the US Government look at China's Great Firewall with both trepidation and admiration.

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus (form the Guardian article) there are covert agents in all the companies, presumably lifting all the certs, which may well be unauthorised, but you can't prosecute. Do you know who your covert agents are?

Why couldn't you prosecute, if you found out? I assume theft is still theft, even if done by a government employee.

Prosecuting would require contacting an authority that would be willing to take the case, and would also require going public with the fact that one of your "trusted" employees had invalidated your security systems, potentially opening you up to untold amounts of liability from customers who may believe their security has been compromised.

Go ahead, call the cops and media. I hope you have a ton of money on hand and some jewelry stashed away in various locations before you do so.

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#107
post #16
post #9

The N.S.A. hacked into target computers to snare messages before they were encrypted. And the agency used its influence as the world’s most experienced code maker to covertly introduce weaknesses into the encryption standards followed by hardware and software developers around the world. This is mostly a confirmation of what has been supposed: No magic, mostly bribed and coerced cooperation from the people who should…

So, should we re-evaluate if Intel/AMD's chips (and possibly even the new ARM ones) contain hardware backdoors for the NSA?

The backdoors are already there...

http://www.techspot.com/news/41643-intels-sandy-bridge-proce...

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#108
post #79
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a false sense of security. You can inspect every line of code in SSL but unless you are a world-class cryptographer yourself, how will you spot a backdoor in the algorithm ?

It's a bit harder to sneak in junk in open source projects. You can see the checkins. However, you are right, if the flaw is in the algorithm itself, it's hopeless.

Is it harder to sneak in junk in open source projects? I'm reminded of Ken Thompson's Turing Award lecture, "Reflections on Trusting Trust". http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

Could someone add a backdoor to git that hides backdoors from showing up in git? Could gcc be backdoored to add backdoors to arbitrary software? How likely is it that NSA has a few zero-days lying around they could use to hack into the servers that host git or gcc or any other tool you rely on? What if they had agents among the committers and maintainers of these projects?

Security against a well-armed, well-funded, well-organized, secretive adversary is hard.

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#109
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a problem with encryption being breakable, regardless of who's doing the breaking. I want encryption to be mathematically solid with the only option being brute-force older-than-age-of-earth time. When we get to quantum computing, then I don't know what we'll do...

Quantom computing cannot break all of crypto. Anything based on P!=NP is believed to be secure against quantom computing, and there are several encryption methods backed by P!=NP

> Quantom computing cannot break all of crypto.

Correct (except for the spelling of "Quantum").

> Anything based on P!=NP is believed to be secure against quantom computing, and there are several encryption methods backed by P!=NP

Incorrect, well mostly. The deal is that there are problems that can be done in "polynomial time" (how long it takes is not exponential in the size of they key) for a normal computer (or person); the set of these is called "P", the ones that CANNOT be done on polynomial time is "NP". And there are problems that can be done in "polynomial time" (with reasonable limits on errors) by a quantum computer; the set of these is called "BQP". If P = BQP it would mean that quantum computers can (in reasonable time) solve all the same problems that classical computers can. But in fact, P is a subset of BQP: there are problems that are "hard" for classical computers but "easy" for quantum computers.

An example of this is factoring numbers. Shor's algorithm is a way to factor numbers using a quantum computer and it runs in polynomial time. Now it isn't practical today: the biggest quantum computers in existence are hard put to factor the number "10", much less some 40-digit monstrosity. But computers only get better.

Fortunately, there are problems which are NOT in BQP -- problems that are hard even for quantum computers. And these are the ones you want (not those in NP) if you want to stymie a quantum computer.

For more details, see http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/bqpph.pdf or frankly ANYTHING written by Scott Aaronson (http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/).

Re: N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

#110
post #101

Out of humor and a bit of worry, I had previously posed a conspiracy theory that the NSA/etc. had undermined (coerced, compromised, whatever) the Internet's certificate authorities. I no longer am comfortable dismissing it as silly humor. I worry that such a theory has about equal parts merit as not. I now want viable open source web-of-trust encryption for the web as soon as possible.

The worrying part is the "etc" part of your sentence, namely that all federal agencies in the US Government now have unrestricted access to encrypted communications. The DEA and the IRS are only the tip of the iceberg.

If one government agency has your data then the rest of them do too.

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