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Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

theguardian.com

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Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#101

Post by derefr »

00rion wrote: post #59
twoodfin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope pg is reading these comments and is pleased that hn has become one more of the innumerable discussion boards where calling the U.S. a "police state, plain and simple" has become part of the everyday discourse. Yuck. I know there has always been a strain of the paranoid (sometimes well-earned) in hacker culture, but presumably it wasn't what this site was built to highlight.

If you don't like the conversation then leave.

I've done that! I did that with Slashdot, and Reddit, and a few other places besides. You guys seem to follow me into whatever new place I end up, and start the politics conversation back up again. Why can't it be you guys who leave for once? :c

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#102

Post by moocowduckquack »

twoodfin wrote: post #37
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being pedantic. No knock, no warrant, no redress when they murder you or a loved one for your family = police state, plain and simple.

I hope pg is reading these comments and is pleased that hn has become one more of the innumerable discussion boards where calling the U.S. a "police state, plain and simple" has become part of the everyday discourse. Yuck. I know there has always been a strain of the paranoid (sometimes well-earned) in hacker culture, but presumably it wasn't what this site was built to highlight.

Surely people calling the US a police state is largely down to recent events.

I don't think that it is largely speaking that people who always thought that the US is a police state have suddenly appeared on HN, but more that people on HN who didn't previously think that the US was a police state are changing their minds.

The US has the worlds highest incarceration rate per capita than any other country and has just been caught running a global surveillance network that would make even the Stasi blink. To not use the term police state when discussing all of this would be weirder.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#103

Post by twoodfin »

samstave wrote: post #95
twoodfin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope pg is reading these comments and is pleased that hn has become one more of the innumerable discussion boards where calling the U.S. a "police state, plain and simple" has become part of the everyday discourse. Yuck. I know there has always been a strain of the paranoid (sometimes well-earned) in hacker culture, but presumably it wasn't what this site was built to highlight.

I'm so tired of this viewpoint. You may not realize it, or value this revelation, but the issues we are discussing regarding the NSA, Snowden and the electronic spying is of critical importance. We are seeing the shaping of the present and the future of the Internet and thus all human communications. I am beyond happy and proud of HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the…

I am beyond happy and proud if HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the HN community for keeping these issues in the front page and having such a sober view of their implications!

Sober views like calling the U.S. a police state? The train where hn had a high-quality discussion about U.S. surveillance and national security policy left the station long, long ago. It was about the time we were getting minute-by-minute postings on the exact position of an airplane seat that didn't contain Edward Snowden.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#104

Post by yardie »

neutronicus wrote: post #75
spodek wrote: post #5

"Can we call it a police state now?" I saw the question on Reddit after a different revelation last month. I feel like we're going to ask that question more and more. I can only hope more and more of us are inspired, as Snowden was by Levinson (Lavabit's CEO) and many of us have been by both of them, and we act to protect ourselves and constrain our governments from overreaching to where they can't help repeating the…

So, my apartment-mate last year was from Belarus. I got in a bicycle accident on my way home, and somehow managed to get myself home (I don't remember this part) with my face pretty much split open. So, I called 911, and an ambulance and some cops came. The cops asked him some questions. He freaked out . I got this lecture the next day about how he didn't sign up for this, how I needed to keep his name out of my trou…

Reminds me of the time I called the police to report an attempted break-in. An hour later they showed up and immediately ran my ID for warrants, I assume. Now I'm on the defensive because even if I wanted to call the police I probably won't.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#106

Post by samstave »

twoodfin wrote: post #103
samstave wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so tired of this viewpoint. You may not realize it, or value this revelation, but the issues we are discussing regarding the NSA, Snowden and the electronic spying is of critical importance. We are seeing the shaping of the present and the future of the Internet and thus all human communications. I am beyond happy and proud of HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the…

I am beyond happy and proud if HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the HN community for keeping these issues in the front page and having such a sober view of their implications! Sober views like calling the U.S. a police state? The train where hn had a high-quality discussion about U.S. surveillance and national security policy left the station long, long ago. It was a…

Yes, calling out the US on the fact that it actually is a police state is sober. If you do not recognize what the true nature of the US is at this point, then you may be in denial about it.

While you might say that things are "not that bad" - just because you hav some relative "comfort" (so long as you're not against the State) - does not mean that the actual architecture of the system is not that of a police state.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#107

Post by dictum »

samstave wrote: post #95
twoodfin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope pg is reading these comments and is pleased that hn has become one more of the innumerable discussion boards where calling the U.S. a "police state, plain and simple" has become part of the everyday discourse. Yuck. I know there has always been a strain of the paranoid (sometimes well-earned) in hacker culture, but presumably it wasn't what this site was built to highlight.

I'm so tired of this viewpoint. You may not realize it, or value this revelation, but the issues we are discussing regarding the NSA, Snowden and the electronic spying is of critical importance. We are seeing the shaping of the present and the future of the Internet and thus all human communications. I am beyond happy and proud of HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the…

I'd be discussing on HN if a shadowy entity suddenly put a backdoor on a service I run to watch my customers' actions within the app.

And I'm still very much annoyed that, as a foreigner who happens to have American customers and business partners, I'm told I have no reason to worry if the USG is watching my work, my personal activities and my relationships. I'd be just as annoyed if another entity was doing the spying and the posterior use of the information to punish me.

So I cannot understand why HN—a site for startup founders, programmers, tech business owners, and people working in technology—wouldn't be a place to discuss an entity watching our actions with the implicit threat of selective punishment.

I worry about some stranger getting access to our customer data. Why wouldn't I worry about a government, be it the US or any other country, getting access to that data?

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#108

Post by neutronicus »

mjolk wrote: post #85
neutronicus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, my apartment-mate last year was from Belarus. I got in a bicycle accident on my way home, and somehow managed to get myself home (I don't remember this part) with my face pretty much split open. So, I called 911, and an ambulance and some cops came. The cops asked him some questions. He freaked out . I got this lecture the next day about how he didn't sign up for this, how I needed to keep his name out of my trou…

While it's a common belief that the police in Belarus are reasonably corrupt, this is usually limited to bribery. Perhaps his visa was expired?

Grad student, so not likely.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#109

Post by craigching »

MrKurtz wrote: post #70
greyman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not unfair. At least some of them, most notably Google and Facebook, actively allure their users to share more and more of their private data, while misleadingly claiming, that they are able to keep them safe. If more and more people will realize the risks of sharing their personal data with those companies, it can endanger their whole business model. So who should fight most vigorously, if not them? And nobody…

You can't declare that they're not fighting because you have no knowledge of what is being done by their lawyers and lobbyists, especially since the courts involved are secret. Lobbying scales better than shutting down or suspending service.

Right, we have no knowledge that they're fighting for us. And until we do, we put our money where our mouths are, stop using their services until we can be sure they're honoring our privacy. If anyone is able to fight, it's them, not the small businesses. So put the burden on them, if they want our data, then prove they can keep it safe.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#110

Post by Shivetya »

criley2 wrote: post #8
spodek wrote: post #5

"Can we call it a police state now?" I saw the question on Reddit after a different revelation last month. I feel like we're going to ask that question more and more. I can only hope more and more of us are inspired, as Snowden was by Levinson (Lavabit's CEO) and many of us have been by both of them, and we act to protect ourselves and constrain our governments from overreaching to where they can't help repeating the…

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

unfortunately we seem to have gone from a system of checks and balances involving the executive branch, legislative, and judicial, to one of judicial, democrat, and republican.

and the press just plays dead

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