Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

al3x.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 162 posts

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#101

Post by kamaal »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #44
dustingetz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i totally understand and respect your position and that's definitely a strategy that can work. The other end of the spectrum is, you could contract someone like Tony Morris[1] at $250 an hour for 20 hours a week, and he will build your product faster than a team of untrained engineers, or more likely, build a product that untrained engineers aren't capable of building, with a defect rate close to zero. Not every stra…

> with a defect rate close to zero. Most of our defects are not software defects, they are product/marketing/strategy/SEO/SEM defects. If American Express wants to launch some app with defined features, then Tony sounds like a great guy. We kinda understand our customers, but not really. We throw pasta at the wall and see if it sticks. Once it sticks, I can hire Tony to make it great. Tony will never accept us as a c…

I don't have decades of programming experience. But with whatever limited experience I have I can tell you. Especially with software knowing what to do is the most difficult part, doing it isn't even a problem.

A product is ultimately a discovery which you have to do in iterations. It won't be until the last iterations you will know what to do. Once things are clear you don't a rock start to get things done, any one can do it now. Rock stars are needed speedup those iterations, do the discovery super fast and get the clarity.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#102

Post by stiff »

pg wrote: post #54

"Yet, there is no enduring formula for creativity and rebellion." This is a fine sounding statement, but it's false. We've been accumulating and refining techniques for having new ideas for centuries, at least. Leonardo da Vinci mentioned several in his writings.

The attempts to develop those techniques mostly showed how big is the extent to which creativity is unconscious (almost completely) and how little control we have over it. I can't think of a single case where a person we admire for their creativity admitted to using mind maps, bisociation, metaheuristics etc.

The enduring formula is the Feynman algorithm: 1. Write down the problem. 2. Think real hard. 3. Write down the solution.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#103

Post by Kurtz79 »

beatpanda wrote: post #51

>Maybe the best way to meet your goal is starting a non-profit or going into politics. I'd like to know whose, or which, goals are better met going into politics. Politics, at least in America, are a machine that eats good ideas and shits murder, and anybody with half a brain and the desire to change the world should know, from even casual observation, to steer clear. For example, Elon Musk and entrepreneurs like him…

It´s an example that might work in the case of Telsa, and few other companies, but in general ?

Most of the damage to the environment has been made by companies making their own interests, and by the politicians that allowed it to happen.

The only obligation the owner/CEO of a company has is towards his employers/employees, and if it aligns with a general benefit for the community at large than fine, if not... well though luck it´s not really their job, is it ?

That's why a body whose main function is (supposedly) caring for the benefit of the community is necessary and I agree with the author's point that you can have a positive impact in different ways.

It doesn't make sense to say that we don't need government/politicians, we need GOOD ones, doing the job they are paid for.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#104

Post by porker »

oblique63 wrote: post #45
dustingetz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i totally understand and respect your position and that's definitely a strategy that can work. The other end of the spectrum is, you could contract someone like Tony Morris[1] at $250 an hour for 20 hours a week, and he will build your product faster than a team of untrained engineers, or more likely, build a product that untrained engineers aren't capable of building, with a defect rate close to zero. Not every stra…

Yeah, but I think the over-arching idea that the OP was getting at, was "what if we can breed these 'superstars'?" That would certainly seem feasible if you interview for personality traits, interests and learning skills, more than actual/concrete knowledge and working skills. And of course, this would be a lot more cost-effective as well. In that case, I would say that the key would lie in paying more attention to h…

> And of course, this would be a lot more cost-effective as well

Only if you can retain them, once they get smart and realise how good they are. Gratitude (and staying with the company who invested in you) aren't popular these days.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#105

Post by oblique63 »

btilly wrote: post #62
oblique63 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I think the over-arching idea that the OP was getting at, was "what if we can breed these 'superstars'?" That would certainly seem feasible if you interview for personality traits, interests and learning skills, more than actual/concrete knowledge and working skills. And of course, this would be a lot more cost-effective as well. In that case, I would say that the key would lie in paying more attention to h…

To a point that is possible. However there are key lessons that don't really sink in until after you have made certain mistakes and have seen the consequences. For instance I understood the value of forcing variable declarations, and of having multiple layers of safeguards after a typo in a variable name caused me to take down Bloomberg's ftp server about 15 years ago. Judging from ability and personality, it was cle…

While that's true, it still seems a bit orthogonal to the point, because the argument being made is essentially about efficiency, not necessarily effectiveness. If we think about all the people that have had such experience changing epiphanies, then take the subset of those who might actually be able to communicate these valuable experiences across in a programming interview, suddenly your selection pool becomes rather small. Which is oddly reminiscent of the current 'talent shortage' issue. Thus, approaching the problem from a different angle which considers this concept of 'experience' to be more of a byproduct of a certain set of traits than a trait itself, you suddenly open up your list of possible candidates to something a lot more workable.

Because after all, there is nothing preventing people selected for personality traits to reach these same epiphanies that 'experienced' people have (regardless of mentorship), it's just a matter of whether or not you as an employer would be willing to accept this 'risk'. Given the current state of affairs with regards to 'talent', I could see many finding the risk permissible. Not to mention the fact that the set of 'smart people with potential' is not mutually exclusive with the set of 'smart people with experience'; of course, selecting purely from the set of people that meet both criteria would still fall under the realm of chasing unicorns, but the point is that the two are not exclusive.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#106

Post by porker »

pg wrote: post #54

"Yet, there is no enduring formula for creativity and rebellion." This is a fine sounding statement, but it's false. We've been accumulating and refining techniques for having new ideas for centuries, at least. Leonardo da Vinci mentioned several in his writings.

Is there a list of these techniques anywhere?

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#107

Post by pharrington »

sliverstorm wrote: post #86
ritchiea wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of comment makes me wonder what percentage of HN has zero idea of what's it's like to be legitimately broke/poor. Even if you're joking, since you include the winky face, what about actual poor uneducated people who will never have a chance to work in a no-name software shop?

What does that have to do with anything? I'm just bemusedly thinking of the parallels between the kid who moves from Small Town, USA to be a star in Hollywood, and the kid who moves from Small Town, USA to make it big with his own startup in SV. "No-name software shop" was probably the wrong choice; a closer tech analogue to waiting tables to fund that acting dream would probably be working IT/helpdesk.

There is nothing in the corporate tech world that's analogous to trying to live off tips.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#108

Post by RockyMcNuts »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #39
RockyMcNuts wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most important thing in your first job is your boss. You are going to learn a massive amount, not just the job skills, but how to work in a group/company. The distance is massive between learning the right things from someone who does things in a first class way, and the wrong things from someone mediocre or worse. Second is the company. You join the right company, and it's a solid growing company, or a rocket ship,…

In a flat organization, your boss is going to be irrelevant. I would gauge a company by whether the interviewers teach or belittle. I personally find belittling okay, and can learn in that environment. "fuck you, if you are such an expert, then you can explain it to me. If you can't explain it, then you are probably full of shit." I have no problem saying that, but most people won't/shouldn't. I get high from learnin…

interesting... After about 3 years I agree. But a first job, someone's got to show you the ropes and get you up to speed with processes, testing, coding standards, help you get unstuck from time to time. I guess by boss I don't necessarily mean team manager, but whoever that is, mentor, direct senior. If nobody has that role, you'd better be pretty self-directed. 'Flat' better not be a synonym for free-for-all with no process, standards, code review, or you might learn some bad habits if you're not a natural (and even then.)

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#109

Post by RockyMcNuts »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #55
franciscoprat wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A manager can be a mentor regardless of the type of organization. What is important if you want to improve a particular skill set is that the people that are managing you truly understand what it takes to do your job well and can provide feedback on what you are not doing well from a "do-ers" perspective - more of an apprenticeship model. I have personally found that mentors are great for career advice and resolving…

I used the word mentor incorrectly. What you want is peer teachers, not mentors. Mentors by the corporate definition are largely useless. You contact them 1-2 per month at best, which is pointless. What you want is a person that observes your code, behavior, interactions, demeanor, etc., and tells you how to do better. It is impossible to have perfect introspection. You need to find a guide more than the corporate de…

that's pretty much what I meant... if you've just graduated that person is not really your 'peer', maybe not your 'boss' either ... a lot of times real world roles and relationships don't line up with org charts.

Re: Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup

#110

Post by jaimebuelta »

dustingetz wrote: post #3

one point al3x didn't talk to: not all startups will teach you to be an awesome engineer. If a startup is really hiring the best of best, a less experienced programmer is not likely to make the cut. Ever look at your code from 6 months, a year, 5 years ago? and how bad it is? Many tech startups don't have time for that, the quality of your work can make or break a startup. Elite startups want "ex-googlers". So if you…

If you work on a startup, almost by definition you'll be doing a lot of different stuff, and changing a lot of things. That is a great environment to learn new different stuff (even out of the engineering field). Maybe not deep knowledge, on the other hand... And, of course, working with great people will make you learn faster and better.
Post reply on HN