This is what happens to good people.
Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
101–110 of 202 posts
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
It's likely a real psychometric survey that the school pays per copy for, and so the company that produced it (like Pearson) treats it as their IP. They do the same thing to psychologists: sell them a survey, and then 'refills' of the questionaire so that they're only allowed to administer the test n times before paying again. It's an interesting problem, because the companies involved fund studies to improve the dia…
And the education machine buys this stuff non-stop.
At the same time every individual school will have dozens of people with graduate degrees. Much of those graduate degrees will be based on classes and research about how to acquire exactly this type of data. And yet, they are unable to make these things themselves and go out and purchase them in the most expensive way possible.
The amount of waste involved in the education process is mind boggling.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#103The teacher should be in hot water for teaching the 5th amendment incorrectly. From the text of the amendment: "No person shall be... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..." The 5th amendment gives people the right to refuse to testify, as a witness , in a way that might incriminate oneself. Relatedly, it excludes self-incriminating statements in certain circumstances from evidence in crimi…
Use of the privilege is not based on the type of proceeding (ie, it applies to more than just criminal cases), but upon the nature of the statement or admission and the exposure that would invite. Precedent has shown self-incrimination is enforceable in non-disciplinary public school "proceedings". If the students were "coerced" or "compelled" to take a survey that may self-incriminate them, then it could probably be…
There was a case a couple of years ago out of SCOTUS applying the 5th to questioning in the presence of a police officer on school grounds. I'm not aware of anything applying without the potential for disciplinary action.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#104"Superintendent Jack Barshinger said teacher support for doing a survey grew after several suicides by students in recent years. Students and staff typically said they had no idea those teens were in distress. 'We can't help them if we aren't aware of their needs,' Barshinger said." Honest question: Could a survey to high school students truly help suicidal teens?
I can't imagine suicidal teens would be any more likely to admit to suicidal thoughts on a survey with their name on it than they would a counselor/parent/teacher/etc.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right not to incriminate yourself is a basic civil right. The Fifth Amendment is a codification of the right, which was given to you, as our Founding Fathers saw it, by the laws of nature. The Amendment may refer only to some circumstances, but the right was prior to it. So, the teacher was correct to treat the students about their basic, God-given rights.
Whose God?
Perhaps metaphorical, does it matter? Some people talk of God, others use it as a figure of speech. The meaning is largely the same, in this particular case.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#106I should like to see the administrator who initiated disciplinary proceedings against this teacher tried and convicted for treason.
No.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#107Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#108He had two obligations, his moral obligations to his students and his obligation as a school system employee, which were in conflict. He choose his moral obligation to his students, but in doing so violated his obligation as a school system employee. The school system did not ask him to perform anything illegal or definitively immoral. It is therefore correct for the school system to punish him for this violation.
If the school system asked him to do something, anything that is in conflict with his moral obligations to students - as you claim - then it DID ask him to perform something immoral.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#109"But John Dryden said he's not the point. He wants people to focus on the issue he raised: Whether school officials considered that students could incriminate themselves with their answers to the survey that included questions about drug and alcohol use." To me, that sounds like an unusually thoughtful social studies teacher. He is relating the general concepts that he is hired to teach his students to a real-world s…
I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
That's awesome. This is what democracy looks like.
I got hooked attending some townhalls on my pet topic. I've learned so much about politics, policy, etc. these last 8 years.
#1 Show up.
#2 Keep showing up.
#3 Bring your friends.
It's ridiculous how few people shape policy. The upside is adding a few more people to the debate can significantly shape outcomes.
If you become credible (learn a topic well enough to speak to all points), and you pack council chambers with your supporters, you will change policy.
Everyone focuses on campaigns. The real action is in policy. Politics is a dirty, filthy business, but it's still worthwhile.
I strongly recommend Camp Wellstone. There's an "activist" track. Anyone aware of methodology or project management will grok their techniques immediately. The focus is policy vs products.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
I would try making a FOIA request for the survey—on the school district's website, there's a link for requests: http://www.bps101.net/node/936
This is a terrific idea. I've done many FOIA requests. It's worthwhile in so many ways.
If the gatekeepers don't provide the information (malicious compliance, obfuscation, foot dragging, denying request), you've got grist for the mill. EVERYONE supports "open government" and will support your efforts.
It's best (PR wise) to get the incriminating information after a long drawn out fight.