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Where Is .Net Headed?

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Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#101

Post by cookiecaper »

CloudNine wrote: post #78
cookiecaper wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I don't think that people have to excite a lot of negative press or otherwise make a fuss with something just because they're moderately displeased with it. Most people won't go to the effort unless the tools are egregiously bad, and we know that Microsoft's stack isn't. They can still be quietly unhappy, locked into the platform with hundreds of thousands of man-hours invested into proprietary applicatio…

> They can still be quietly unhappy, locked into the platform with hundreds of thousands of man-hours invested into proprietary applications that depend heavily on major, hard-to-replace platform components (see: WPF, not implemented by Mono, or Silverlight, hit and miss via the unmaintained Moonlight), and buying server licenses due to a change in the way change in the way servers are provisioned. What change in the…

>What change in the way servers are provisioned? Many companies still use Windows Server 2003 and even .NET 4.5 is supported on it. That sounds like FUD.

I explained this in my initial post in this thread. Virtual machines are having a major effect on the provisioning of servers, requiring more OS licenses than prior. The person I replied to conceded this point.

>They can also be happy with the ease of use of Active Directory and Group Policy instead of relying on half baked convulted perl scripts cooked up by a long gone sysadmin.

LDAP

>Please, you're just embarassing yourself with your ignorant assumptions.

You weren't capable of processing my first post, and are now harassing me for discussing Microsoft in a MS thread, so who should be the embarrassed one here?

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#102

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #31
eduardordm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You couldn't buy the VS licenses + SQL Server + Windows Server with the money YCombinator provides you. So, yes, most microsoft products are incredibly damaging for a startup.

That just means yc gives too little money.

Two things:

(a) The money YC is giving isn't intended to solve capex problems like this. It's meant to make the first couple months of getting a minimal offering viable for small early teams. In the YC model, if the problem your business solves involves significant capex costs, you use YC to match your company with a next round of investors to handle that problem.

(b) The reality is that you do get enough money to fund a .NET stack when you get into YC, because YC comes with an assurance of immediate follow-on convertible note investment.

Neither of these two points makes .NET a better choice for early-stage startups than Rails or Django or PHP; Microsoft has to smooth over the expense problem with programs like Bizspark.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#103

Post by moron4hire »

cookiecaper wrote: post #95
cmircea wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as if WPF was the only way to make UIs for apps.

But it was the primary, endorsed way for several years. WinForms was deprecated, and WPF was the new thing you were supposed to use.

Now you're putting words into Microsoft's mouth to make your point stick. WinForms was never deprecated, WPF was never meant as a replacement for it.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#104

Post by cookiecaper »

moron4hire wrote: post #103
cookiecaper wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was the primary, endorsed way for several years. WinForms was deprecated, and WPF was the new thing you were supposed to use.

Now you're putting words into Microsoft's mouth to make your point stick. WinForms was never deprecated, WPF was never meant as a replacement for it.

My mistake, I was under the impression that WinForms had been formally deprecated in favor of WPF. It doesn't appear to be such a rare feeling; there are 1.59 million results in Google for "WinForms deprecated".

Regardless of the formal action, the clear message from MS upon release of WPF was: "This is the new official GUI builder, please use it, it should be preferred". Indication of such preferences is relevant. Or do you suggest that MS released WPF with the intention that no one would ever use it?

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#105

Post by bigtones »

charlieflowers wrote: post #49
smacktoward wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laugh if you want to, but the point is pretty serious. Azure supposedly racked up more than $1 billion in revenue in 2012 ( http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-joins-microsofts-billion-... ). Amazon's AWS, on the other hand, is estimated to have brought in between $1.5 and $2 billion ( http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-deals/2013-03-07-what-if-amazon... , http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-computing/infrastructur... ) du…

I heard this a couple of weeks ago (on Hacker News), and I was SHOCKED! I have worked for years as a .Net consultant, and I had no idea Azure had grown this quickly. A couple of years ago, I thought their entire set of literature was counter-intuitive, and I quit paying attention to them. How on Earth did they grow to be in AWS's league so quickly? Surely just getting the "default Microsoft business" wasn't enough to…

If you read the fine print, it states $1B in sales of Azure services and also Microsoft tools the run on top of Azure - including hosted Exchange and Sharepoint. It's not just $1B worth of compute like AWS is.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#106

Post by moron4hire »

cookiecaper wrote: post #104
moron4hire wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you're putting words into Microsoft's mouth to make your point stick. WinForms was never deprecated, WPF was never meant as a replacement for it.

My mistake, I was under the impression that WinForms had been formally deprecated in favor of WPF. It doesn't appear to be such a rare feeling; there are 1.59 million results in Google for "WinForms deprecated". Regardless of the formal action, the clear message from MS upon release of WPF was: "This is the new official GUI builder, please use it, it should be preferred". Indication of such preferences is relevant. O…

I think they released WPF with the understanding that WinForms has very Windows-specific features that were preventing people from adopting .NET for cross-platform development. WinForms is Java AWT, WPF is Java Swing. WinForms is meant to be a basic wrapper around GDI, WPF is a completely different rendering engine separate from Windows. I think they were hoping people would choose appropriately based on their needs.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#107

Post by pjmlp »

kyllo wrote: post #87
pjmlp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot do that, because CLR has pointers, value types, unions and proper tail call optimization. So those features are not mappable to the JVM.

So that means C/C++, Obj-C, and ML languages (SML, OCaml, F#) are all impossible to implement on the JVM?

You can only provide partial implementation.

Scala goes to great extents to try to live without tail call optimization.

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