Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not a political reality. Since healthcare bought by an employer counts as an tax-deductible expense and healthcare bought by an individual gets no such breaks, there is a huge incentive (equal to the marginal tax rate) for individuals to have someone else write the checks for the bulk of their healthcare costs. Before market-based healthcare will work, either 1) employer-provided health insurance benefits must…
#2 is solved by HSAs. HSA purchases are tax-free.
One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
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Re: One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
#2 is solved by HSAs. HSA purchases are tax-free.
See my reply to greedo above.
Re: One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
See my reply to greedo above.
HSAs are not deductions. HSAs are pre-tax money which is essentially tax exempt when saved/invested (including gains) or when spent on a medical purchase. So you can still use one fully even if you take the standard deduction.
All that being said, I think my original point about employer-provided insurance incentives distorting the healthcare market stands empirically. It just costs more if you buy your own health insurance. If taxes aren't the reason, what is? And what should be done about that, if anything?
Re: One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the precise opposite of how it works for a lot of people in the US. I've been on both sides of this, with two incidents a few days apart on either side of student insurance expiring. Hospitals charge uninsured people a ridiculous amount, then mark it down anywhere from 50-98% (Yes, I had a bill that was adjusted 98%) based on negotiations with insurance companies. Uninsured people get hit with the full, absur…
Any basis for implying North Dakota must be less functional than your locale?
Re: One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about the unemployed who cannot afford the mandatory insurance - and won't get assistance unless they trek 20 miles across the county (without a car) EACH WEEK to prove they are still unemployed yet looking for work? Seem right? Basically they didn't solve health care costs, they just dumped the cost onto the entire taxpayer base, the same way walmart keeps low prices by keeping their employees on food stamps.
Like I said: single payer begins to look good. We've fixed problem (A), that everyone should have health insurance. This is what we were able to get passed. Now we have problem (B): how to get everyone insured? The republicans fought tooth and nail against this because they know that viable solutions to problem (B) are very narrow, and Americans aren't going to want to go back to the have/have not insurance previous…
Re: One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
HSAs are not deductions. HSAs are pre-tax money which is essentially tax exempt when saved/invested (including gains) or when spent on a medical purchase. So you can still use one fully even if you take the standard deduction.
You cannot pay insurance premiums from an HSA. HSAs have annual caps. Small business owners still have to pay some taxes on HSA contributions. The poor have no use for tax deductions because they don't pay income taxes. HSAs are a partial answer at best. All that being said, I think my original point about employer-provided insurance incentives distorting the healthcare market stands empirically. It just costs more i…
No, HSAs no longer have caps (at least policies signed after a certain date, or in some states; I think pretty soon they'll have no annual or lifetime maximums at all); they're essentially "you're at risk based on your deductible for non-preventive services up to the out of pocket maximum, but excellent essentially-free care for the rest of the year once you hit that cap"). (there are some weird edge cases, like Rx drugs outside the hospital, potentially non-covered services, etc., but essentially a $500k hospital bill for some serious trauma would all be covered after you've paid the $5-7k out of pocket maximum (probably met on the way to the hospital or within seconds of entering the ER, if it's a serious trauma)
You can solve the "poor have no use for tax deductions" by giving them the out of pocket maximum into the HSA; it's free money in a personal allocated account. Or by making some deductions refundable or credits (similar to the EIC, which is most of why Puerto Rico wants to become a state now...most citizens would earn a federal tax rebate!)
The quick fix is probably to make personal purchases of health insurance also deductible, rather than removing employer health insurance deductibility. And push people into HSAs, with some people getting HSA account filling by the government. No one should be against this (except I guess "any tax decreases are bad, since we're already operating at a deficit")
Re: One hospital charges $8,000 — another, $38,000
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
You cannot pay insurance premiums from an HSA. HSAs have annual caps. Small business owners still have to pay some taxes on HSA contributions. The poor have no use for tax deductions because they don't pay income taxes. HSAs are a partial answer at best. All that being said, I think my original point about employer-provided insurance incentives distorting the healthcare market stands empirically. It just costs more i…
Yes, your out of pocket is premium + out of pocket maximum. No, HSAs no longer have caps (at least policies signed after a certain date, or in some states; I think pretty soon they'll have no annual or lifetime maximums at all); they're essentially "you're at risk based on your deductible for non-preventive services up to the out of pocket maximum, but excellent essentially-free care for the rest of the year once you…
I'm glad we agree. That's what I said a few comments ago. Though once you make insurance deductible, you might as well close all healthcare purchase loopholes.
I also said it amounts to a huge tax break, and I don't see a revenue-neutral way of getting that passed. And I don't see Congress hiking up the national deficit that much right now.