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GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

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Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#101

Post by marquis »

pifflesnort wrote: post #93
marquis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are an estimated 9-12% women in the field of programming. Are you saying that 90% of the female population has no balls? Or is it more likely that due the systemic method of education, girls don't get interested in programming because by the time they are taught it, the boys are in the computer lab making a ruckus and they'd rather go socialize elsewhere. I speak with teachers at primary schools who get girls a…

> Are you saying that 90% of the female population has no balls? No. The major hurdles to becoming a programmer are crossed long before it becomes time to put code in a github repository. > Or is it more likely that due the systemic method of education, girls don't get interested in programming because by the time they are taught it, the boys are in the computer lab making a ruckus and they'd rather go socialize else…

> the only people in there were super-nerds playing video games for hours

I know! It was really annoying. I just wanted to get stuck into computerized maths, CAD and plotting when I was 14 but it was uncomfortable being the only girl in the lab during lunch hours. If there had been another boy or girl I respected as a friend there I might have joined in, not to be sociable but just knowing there was someone else there who wasn't geeking out on gaming.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#102

Post by icambron »

raganwald wrote: post #57
Pewpewarrows wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between HN believing that businesses should legally be allowed to do all of the above, and HN believing that it's socially / morally wrong to do any of the above. (Note that this is merely a reply to your comment in a vacuum, and shouldn't be construed as me supporting either "side" in this thread.)

My statement isn't actually supporting either side of this thread either, just pointing out that their behaviour seems quite consistent with the things HN has vocally defended with all the zeal of a college freshman who has just discovered "Atlas Shrugged."

I'm not sure HN has ever agreed on anything enough to be described collectively as defending it. I suspect the members of the HN community that defended that viewpoint may be college freshman who just discovered "Atlas Shrugged". I don't see much ground to say, "People on HN sometimes say this, so isn't that the ethos now?"

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#103

Post by theorique »

marquis wrote: post #70
theorique wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software. If $7-12 / month (github's two lowest cost paid plans) is 'too expensive' for a person getting started in open source software, that person might want to rethink how interested and/or committed they actually are. It's fine if Ada / github want to give female programmers a leg up to accomplish some social…

I didn't write the article, but I agree with the premise. Women earn less, have children who come first. If you have small kids at home the best possible job is programming but you don't have a credit card or saving up for the winter power bill comes first.

Fair point. Although it would seem in that case like time or social connection are bigger barriers. I guess people and orgs will do what they can.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#104

Post by [deleted] »

marquis wrote: post #70
theorique wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software. If $7-12 / month (github's two lowest cost paid plans) is 'too expensive' for a person getting started in open source software, that person might want to rethink how interested and/or committed they actually are. It's fine if Ada / github want to give female programmers a leg up to accomplish some social…

I didn't write the article, but I agree with the premise. Women earn less, have children who come first. If you have small kids at home the best possible job is programming but you don't have a credit card or saving up for the winter power bill comes first.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#105

Post by eridius »

cosmez wrote: post #87
jmj42 wrote: post #79

You know this makes me sick. Time and time again, articles pop up here on HN talking about some organization trying to promote and encourage women in technology and the comments explode with privileged boys whining about about how "it's not fair" You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from…

That last paragraph is exactly the reason i hate this sexist talks, it doesn't matter if its the boys or girls that are complaining.. I don't know if that's the case in the place you are living right now but, if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem.. Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on.

If you can't recognize that men have a vast amount of privilege compared to women, then I don't really know what to say.

Last year a man named Geordie Tait posted an article called "To My Someday Daughter"[1]. It's quite long, but definitely worth reading. The context is gaming, but the central thesis is sexism. One quote from the article that really opened my eyes to how radically different men and women view the world comes from section 7 of the article. It's a quote by Gavin de Becker, and it says

"Men and women live in different worlds. At core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them."

And according to my girlfriend, this is not even the slightest bit exaggerated.

[1]: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/22786_To_My_Someday_...

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#106

Post by sneak »

jmj42 wrote: post #79

You know this makes me sick. Time and time again, articles pop up here on HN talking about some organization trying to promote and encourage women in technology and the comments explode with privileged boys whining about about how "it's not fair" You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from…

Please don't conflate people being ignorant of their privilege with legitimate criticism of The Ada Initiative.

The Ada Initiative is a destructive and notorious concern-troll organization that is reviled by many feminists of both genders. They hurt all real initiatives for resolving inequality and bias in technology. Supporting them is destructive.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#107

Post by raganwald »

jmj42 wrote: post #79

You know this makes me sick. Time and time again, articles pop up here on HN talking about some organization trying to promote and encourage women in technology and the comments explode with privileged boys whining about about how "it's not fair" You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from…

Lewis's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Lewis_(journalist)#Lewis....

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#108

Post by needacig »

redidas wrote: post #98
needacig wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that matter? EDIT: Oh, do you mean that women should hide the fact that they are women online when contributing to OSS? I imagine many do.

I think what dwild is after is that online identities don't always have a gender attached to them, whether it be intentional or not. If the gender is not apparent, then there's no real way to discriminate is there? This especially goes for HN. I have no idea who is man and who isn't, as most use some sort of username/alias instead of their real name.

If the gender is not apparent, then there is no way to discriminate. I'm not sure what this has to do with the main article though. Many people like to connect their online accounts to their real identity (and thus gender), especially their GitHub accounts. Some don't. Is the suggestion that if women don't want to be discriminated against, they should hide their identities?

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#109

Post by sneak »

The fact that they partnered with the destructive and notorious Ada Initiative is disappointing. They are little more than concern-trolls, and they are doing far more to hinder equality than promote it.

GitHub is full of great people and poor choices like this are incongruent.

PS: This isn't male privilege speaking - The Ada Initiative is disliked (for very good reason) by feminists of both genders.

Re: GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

#110

Post by jmj42 »

cosmez wrote: post #87
jmj42 wrote: post #79

You know this makes me sick. Time and time again, articles pop up here on HN talking about some organization trying to promote and encourage women in technology and the comments explode with privileged boys whining about about how "it's not fair" You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from…

That last paragraph is exactly the reason i hate this sexist talks, it doesn't matter if its the boys or girls that are complaining.. I don't know if that's the case in the place you are living right now but, if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem.. Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on.

No, you got it wrong.

>if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem

Unwillingness to recognize that women are at a disadvantage due to long-term social mores is part of the problem.

"Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on?" You really don't get it, do you? Every little comment, snide remark, finger pointing... Words are sharp, they cut deep. In the end, it's these social pressures that result in fewer women entering STEM programs and careers. Ignoring them? No, that's not what we do. We, as men, must stop ignoring the problem, and put ourselves out there. Stop being silent, the problem will not go away, unless we speak up.

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