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Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

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Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#101

Post by yebyen »

rallison wrote: post #74
ScottWhigham wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you see as a problem, I see as a positive. This is clearly an edge case - it's not the norm by far. The norm is that sellers make darn sure that their product is "as advertised" so that they've set the expectations correctly. This results in higher feedback for the seller. Sure, you have some slime ball sellers there who say, "Give me 5 stars!" but that, again, is not the norm.

And, in the case of this seller, it appears this was not an isolated incident. In their reply to the one star review, they state: Sorry- no idea there was postage due. This has happened alot from USPS lately. http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&...

So, where is the case against USPS? Clearly they are the ones at fault. Also not an isolated incident.

Does this really happen? You take the package to the post office, they weigh the package, charge you money, give you a receipt, and then later demand money from the recipient in order to finally deliver the package?

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#102

Post by will_brown »

DannyBee wrote: post #92
will_brown wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eBay could file a Motion to Dismiss like you suggest, but they actually have a dog in this fight - because if sellers suing buyers over feedback becomes common practice that could have a chilling effect on eBay transactions. Without seeing the pleading I am assuming this is only a libel claim, eBay may be better off filing a Motion for Judgment on the Pleadings and get the case dismissed as to both parties and not ju…

Sure, they may bother to file a motion for judgement instead. But eBay has a near 0% chance of losing here, the safe harbor is very clear. Given how little eBay tries to protect anyone but eBay already , I can't see why they would ever stay in this voluntarily.

It's not instead, they can file the judgement on the pleadings and if they lose they can file motion to dismiss (most jurisdictions they can combine the two motions, motion for judgment of the pleadings and in the alternative motion to dismiss). It's not much of a legal cost and they stand to gain a lot .

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#103

Post by [deleted] »

DannyBee wrote: post #92
will_brown wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eBay could file a Motion to Dismiss like you suggest, but they actually have a dog in this fight - because if sellers suing buyers over feedback becomes common practice that could have a chilling effect on eBay transactions. Without seeing the pleading I am assuming this is only a libel claim, eBay may be better off filing a Motion for Judgment on the Pleadings and get the case dismissed as to both parties and not ju…

Sure, they may bother to file a motion for judgement instead. But eBay has a near 0% chance of losing here, the safe harbor is very clear. Given how little eBay tries to protect anyone but eBay already , I can't see why they would ever stay in this voluntarily.

[deleted]

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#104

Post by DannyBee »

will_brown wrote: post #102
DannyBee wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they may bother to file a motion for judgement instead. But eBay has a near 0% chance of losing here, the safe harbor is very clear. Given how little eBay tries to protect anyone but eBay already , I can't see why they would ever stay in this voluntarily.

It's not instead, they can file the judgement on the pleadings and if they lose they can file motion to dismiss (most jurisdictions they can combine the two motions, motion for judgment of the pleadings and in the alternative motion to dismiss). It's not much of a legal cost and they stand to gain a lot .

I'm not familiar with medina county, ohio motions practice :)

However, let's assume this will end up in federal court because ebay/et al will remove it there (there is complete diversity, ).

Past that, I won't claim it's not common federal motion practice to combine 12(b)(6) and rule 56 motions, or 12(b)(6) and 12(c) motions.

Yes, a 12(b)(6) and rule 56 motion can be filed at the same time, not one instead of the other.

However, in the 12(b)(6) and 12(c) case, often one is clearly instead of the other, because 12(c) is only used after pleadings are closed, and 12(b)(6) would have to be made before a responsive pleading if one is required (if no responsive pleading is required, yes, you can make it whenever, including at trial)

Just because you can combine them into the same motion out of simplicity doesn't make them not "instead" of each other.

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#105

Post by lowboy »

Karunamon wrote: post #66
ScottWhigham wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The seller made sure that there would be no winners in this situation when they sent the item with insufficient postage. If that doesn't happen, the rest of this likely does not happen. "Negging someone on eBay for a buck in shipping is a pretty crappy thing to do" That's just not true - that may be your opinion but that's the opinion of a very small number of people. The majority - an overwhelming majority - believe…

>That's just not true Yes it is. I can forgive someone for being ignorant of the way the eBay feedback system works, but when you push that button, you are not just "notifying other perspective buyers of potential problems". It hasn't been that way for years. Not since eBay removed the ability to leave negative feedback for buyers, anyways. If I were the seller in this case, rather than going to court, and negative f…

> What you are actually doing when negging a seller is deciding "This seller made me so mad that I am going to cost them large amounts of reputation, raise their fees, restrict their ability to list, and possibly help drive them out of business"

What you are actually doing is noting dissatisfaction with the buyer through the system eBay has set up. The consequences you describe are a result of the system, not the willful action of the buyer. Savvy and unscrupulous buyers might hope that those are the consequences, but one neg doesn't directly translate into that quoted intent.

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#106

Post by Karunamon »

lowboy wrote: post #105
Karunamon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's just not true Yes it is. I can forgive someone for being ignorant of the way the eBay feedback system works, but when you push that button, you are not just "notifying other perspective buyers of potential problems". It hasn't been that way for years. Not since eBay removed the ability to leave negative feedback for buyers, anyways. If I were the seller in this case, rather than going to court, and negative f…

> What you are actually doing when negging a seller is deciding "This seller made me so mad that I am going to cost them large amounts of reputation, raise their fees, restrict their ability to list, and possibly help drive them out of business" What you are actually doing is noting dissatisfaction with the buyer through the system eBay has set up. The consequences you describe are a result of the system, not the wil…

>The consequences you describe are a result of the system, not the willful action of the buyer.

And if you take that action as a buyer, you are either ignorant of what that negative feedback entails (which is understandable, eBay doesn't go out of its way to post this except on seller only pages.. they DO however say that you are supposed to contact the seller, and in fact if you attempt to leave negative feedback, they stop you with an "are you sure you haven't done X Y and Z" page before actually submitting it)

Or, the buyer knows, and decides that these consequences are worth ruining someone over a dollar.

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#107

Post by Karunamon »

yebyen wrote: post #101
rallison wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, in the case of this seller, it appears this was not an isolated incident. In their reply to the one star review, they state: Sorry- no idea there was postage due. This has happened alot from USPS lately. http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&...

So, where is the case against USPS? Clearly they are the ones at fault. Also not an isolated incident. Does this really happen? You take the package to the post office, they weigh the package, charge you money, give you a receipt, and then later demand money from the recipient in order to finally deliver the package?

Nah, the package isn't weighed twice. More likely than not the seller weighed it themselves and used a calculator (either on eBay's website or with an app like Stamps.com) to figure the amount, which was off by a bit.

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#108

Post by MDCore »

btilly wrote: post #73
MDCore wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you fail at that, I will leave bad feedback, and if it causes you to go out of business, I couldn’t care less. Do your job better next time. Wow. One small mistake and they should go out of business. Are you treated that way in your job?

You seem to be unacquainted with the realities of capitalism. In a retail business, your customers want to be served by you and are willing to pay for that privilege. They don't particularly care what it takes for you to provide them with the service, or what the consequences to you are if they express displeasure over the value not received for the money spent. You are not a charity that deserves to exist on princip…

There is a great gap between saying "I will not shop with you" and "I wish nobody ever shops with you". I wasn't bothered by GP's desire for accurate feedback, or for consequences for mistakes; I was appalled by their callous attitude.

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#109

Post by claudius »

yebyen wrote: post #95
pi18n wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain yours is not an objective opinion.

I think they will probably go down in court. Having done Amazon business in the past, and knowing what bad mojo it is to try to change the terms adding extra charges after the deal is signed, personally I would have just eaten the $1.44 fee. Then again, I never made a dime at Amazon, only just lost money and collected positive ratings... EDIT: I am being downvoted up the thread for taking a position that is not popul…

There is only negative - neutral - positive on eBay (in the overall rating, not the specific shipping/as advertised etc. categories).

So it now comes down to expectations and how to match expectations to + 0 and -. I for one absolutely expect items to be as advertises and delivered within the timespan indicated. For that, sellers get a 0. If they deliver faster and/or a better item, they might get a +. If they fail to meet my basic expectations, they get a -. Hence, by these standards, the - was perfectly justified.

Re: Buyer sued for posting factual negative review on eBay

#110

Post by yebyen »

claudius wrote: post #109
yebyen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they will probably go down in court. Having done Amazon business in the past, and knowing what bad mojo it is to try to change the terms adding extra charges after the deal is signed, personally I would have just eaten the $1.44 fee. Then again, I never made a dime at Amazon, only just lost money and collected positive ratings... EDIT: I am being downvoted up the thread for taking a position that is not popul…

There is only negative - neutral - positive on eBay (in the overall rating, not the specific shipping/as advertised etc. categories). So it now comes down to expectations and how to match expectations to + 0 and -. I for one absolutely expect items to be as advertises and delivered within the timespan indicated. For that, sellers get a 0. If they deliver faster and/or a better item, they might get a +. If they fail t…

I did not know this is how the e-bay rating system works!

For some reason given this information, I changed my mind. When the buyer had 5 stars to choose from (in my mind, and I thought they granted only 1) it seemed abominable to leave the bad rating, given facts. Seemed to me like their customer service was worthy of at least 3 stars.

Now knowing that the scale is only three wide, it seems like a reasonable thing to do, leaving a rating of "minus".

That's funny.

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