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There are Ladies Present

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Re: There are Ladies Present

#101

Post by joshguthrie »

iamtherockstar wrote: post #3

I agree with this, fully and unequivocally. I have to wonder if "there are ladies present" might also be construed as sexist. Maybe we just shouldn't use toilet humor in situations where we're not absolutely sure everyone will find it appropriate. Warning: offensive, but to demonstrate a point... I once interviewed a guy who decided to wear a t-shirt to the interview that read "Thousands of my potential children died…

Heh. I've been defending my right for penis jokes those last three days, but in that case I'll totally agree (and my sword is yours).

The right for our "penis jokes" also entitles us to a moral responsibility: be "a bit" sure we can make these jokes to our audience (though I admit I don't check/care for people around whose ears have long reach, but this is another debate), which is why you ought to be a little self-conscious of what you are wearing.

On the other hand, this makes me cringe a bit... I bought this hoodie that says "Cool story bro" (obvious reference to the meme), what if I stumble upon persons who will understand this as me "perpetuating the testosterone bro-culture that is driving women away from tech"?

If we start drawing the line somewhere, how do we know someone else didn't draw it earlier or later to ours?

Re: There are Ladies Present

#102

Post by numo16 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #95
mindcrime wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men, can you imagine how hard it would be if all the women were constantly, and openly, talking about tampons, cramps, yeast infections, cheating, being cheated on, Trichomoniasis, faking-it, etc? I don't know about you, but It would make me feel out of place. I've been the only male in a female dominated IT department before, and you know what... it does feel a bit awkward being a minority. It's not fun, and you a…

Not in an IT dept, but when I was going to school, I worked in a restaurant where I was the only male most of the time. Well, I was a shift manager, and all the shift managers and store manager were females except me (4-5 others). I got the crap shifts, had my schedule changed on a whim by others, and was often given crap tasks - moving/unloading stuff "because you're the man - I can't lift that!" It was funny for ab…

Funny you mention this, as I was told by the hiring manager at a wendy's that I worked at that she was hiring me to "do the man work", which meant unloading and putting away truck, working grill,taking out the trash, etc... Never really thought about that until now...

Re: There are Ladies Present

#103

Post by baby »

joshontheweb wrote: post #31
baby wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being a minority sucks Well that's the thing with this community. We think we're clever enough to avoid basic human nature and NOT discriminate a minority. I believe this can happen with dedication and extreme stories like the pycon's one to remind us of how being a minority sucks when people act too human. > Fix the representation problem You mean fix the mentality.

No, I think he meant what he said. If there wasn't an unbalanced representation of genders, the sensitivity would be less because there would be less self consciousness about your gender in the situation.

You can't always fix the numbers. There will always be a minority, women, black people, blue eyed people...

Re: There are Ladies Present

#104

Post by rayiner »

baby wrote: post #103
joshontheweb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think he meant what he said. If there wasn't an unbalanced representation of genders, the sensitivity would be less because there would be less self consciousness about your gender in the situation.

You can't always fix the numbers. There will always be a minority, women, black people, blue eyed people...

You can fix the numbers for gender, considering they are in fact the majority of the population. There is no associated power disparity for blue eyed people. Racial minorities will always present a problem.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#106

Post by zem »

illuminate wrote: post #97
zem wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that a counter? It follows directly!

Right, but plenty are attempting to sidestep this comfort level and any contextualization, demanding that women enjoy lame dick jokes for the comfort of the men around them.

that's exactly what i was trying to say. the thing to do is notice the context that leads women to disproportionately find sex jokes uncomfortable, not to conclude that "women are different from men and therefore..."

Re: There are Ladies Present

#107

Post by derefr »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #90
nemothekid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because I'm young and I don't know "how it works" yet, but I would hate for the Tech industry as I know now to become "professional." To me, the tech industry is one of the few places I can work without wearing a suit and tie everyday and still make more than 6 figures. I don't want my presentations to be "censored" because someone has a stick too far up their ass. I don't want the next Linus to be fired becaus…

When I say that I think we need to be more inclusive of women, the last thing I'm saying is that we need to turn every company into an HR police state (trust me, I've worked in those places before and they're hellish). However, I think I can touch on one of your points to help explain why these seemingly petty word choices are more important than most people think. > I understand there are lines however. The CouchDB…

> consider it in the context of what women see or hear at that conference on the same day:

I think this is the problem with my perspective here. I don't have experience with any of those other things. At the company I work for, nobody thinks booth-babes, sexualized desktop wallpaper, or bland acceptance of horribly sexist stereotypical "humor" is a good idea. We wouldn't attend a con where any of those were the norm; we'd probably boycott it.

And since we don't have those things, the dongle-jokes seem a lot less like "adding onto the pile."

Re: There are Ladies Present

#108

Post by jodrellblank »

newnewnew wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you don't really care.

Do you know what Cards Against Humanity is? The moderator puts out a prompt card like "Santa ran out of coal, so this Christmas he is stuffing bad kid's stockings with __________". And then other players anonymously submit cards to fill in the blank with words on them like "AIDS", "A starving African child", "Michael Jackson", "White Privilege", "Anal Beads", "the Holocaust" and etc. The idea is to hit every awful th…

This is basically arguing the same as saying that because she would discuss her breasts in one context with a doctor, you should be able to discuss them with her in any context.

It's such a stupid claim on your part that "context doesn't matter" and you're still not doing anything to back up your claim that she would "get people fired" for playing CAH - especially when she did play it and did not raise any complaints about it.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#110

Post by theoretick »

MoreMoschops wrote: post #93
dizzystar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me ask you: Guy calls a hat cute, he... Woman calls a hat cute, she... Which one is more offensive? What exactly did men do that was so terrible to women -- in this industry -- that you feel like everyone has to make amends, and anything that "could" be a sexual joke should result result in the drama bomb we just seen or any ultimatums? I did NOT suggest that you should be making bathroom jokes on stage. I DID su…

I think you left out some context there. Grace Hopper, one of the most accomplished computer scientists not just of her day but ever. Rose to dizzying heights in the US military because they needed her so much. A towering giant of the field. So when the picture of her comes up on screen, does the speaker say any of this? Does he acknowledge her greatness? No. He says she's wearing a cute hat. All her accomplishments…

This debate is entirely moot without context. I imagined/read it as something like: >"...Ah, and this absolutely brilliant woman started that trend. Just look at her, a beacon blahblahblah wrapped in that cute hat."

If neither of us have been there, its pointless arguing the statement. My point is simply that when I do such talks I frequently inject humor into it, just the way he had. Reading it as a completely isolated comment seems highly unrealistic to me.

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