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The dire state of WordPress

jshakespeare.com

101–110 of 162 posts

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#101
post #7

To paraphrase Churchill, Wordpress is the worst CMS -- except for all the others. I'd love to find an open-source CMS (preferably in Python or Ruby) with clean, secure, elegant code and a well-organized framework that comes with a friendly admin and active, responsive development community like Wordpress, but so far I've got nothing. (If anyone has any suggestions, please do feel free to share them!)

I discovered Concrete5 ( http://concrete5.org ) a few years ago after building many Wordpress sites (large and small), and totally fell in love with it. It's not perfect, but it's much better than any other CMS out there for end-users, designers, and developers: * Editing UI is on the front-end -- users just go to the page they want to edit and click on things to edit them, which is much more intuitive than a back-en…

I too have moved from Wordpress to Concrete5 and was a huge fan. I appreciated the flexibility of the system, combined with the free availability. However, a few things have started to bother me about it:

* The CMS interface is very powerful, which can be a good thing in some cases, but for most sites I make it is more of a liability than an advantage. Users can easily format the headline red because they think it deserves more importance, they can add new layouts everywhere adding columns to pages etc. For pages that are carefully designed, this provides a lot of room for screwing up the site, both accidentally and on purpose.

* Due to the power of interface, it becomes a lot more complex than it should be. While this may not be a problem for advanced users, for small sites (small business, club, individual person etc) the person editing the site is often not too skilled and every new menu is a new opportunity to get lost and to click the wrong option. If I click a block, there are about seven options and only half of them should ever be used by the editor. Custom options for a site are hidden in a page properties menu somewhere and there are so many options that should never be touched on the way to get there.

* I have been disappointed by the lack of commitment to excellence and best practices by the Concrete5 team. There are so many parts of the system that are made to “just work” instead of being based on modern best practices. Half of the blocks produce HTML that you don’t want to have in a modern HTML5 based site. I know that you (jordanlev) have been working on some improved blocks, so kudos for that! Also, this is more of a general impression and I haven’t been using C5 for about a year, so things might have changed.

* Creating custom blocks comes with quite some complexity, so you either have to invest the time to create them or try to work with an existing block and work around their limitations. Try having a table on a page that can be edited by the user with the possibility to add a class to some rows so they can be highlighted with CSS.

* I’ve had a lot of performance issues, where a site would take ~10s to load the first page.

I would still use Concrete5 for projects where I know that a lot of flexibility without my intervention is needed and there are skilled people who will be able to edit the site without screwing everything up or when minimal costs are needed.

For all other (small) projects, I have started using Perch, which isn’t open source, but an absolute joy to use. It’s reasonably priced, gives you real control over the code and makes it possible to have a nice, well-documented interface for the editor where they can easily edit everything within the boundaries that are defined by the design. Where a custom block in Concrete5 needs several PHP files, an XML database schema etc you just create a HTML template file with some template tags in Perch and you have full control over the order, labels and help texts in the CMS back-end.

It took me a while to get my head around the concepts and see which problem should be solved which way in Perch, but now I finally have a CMS where I have full control over the code and can make the edit interface as easy to use as possible, with minimal effort on my part.

I realize that this sounds a bit like a sales pitch, but I have no affiliation with the developers. Of course, there’s a risk associated with using a closed-source product by a small company, but Perch has been around for a while and the development continues to be very active with a very responsive team.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#102
post #13

As far as I can tell WordPress is stuck. Its success is largely down to the number of theme's and plugins it currently has. You can build pretty much any basic functionality by just installing the plugin's for it. A rewrite would probably benefit the performance and abilities of Wordpress but it would be at the cost of ALL the themes and plugins. The platform would start again from scratch. I don't follow Wordpress t…

For future reference, plural forms of words don't require apostrophes. (theme's, plugin's)

Dayum Travis,

Harsh, just harsh! :)

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#103
it seems to me WP has tried to be everything to everybody and the cracks are finally starting to show.

I've never been a huge fan of WP for several reasons. One is the horror of trying to crowbar one of their themes into what I want it to look like. The second is the ungodly amount of bloat the have on their themes and templates.

Just give me something stripped down and lightweight that I can build on. Too many of these frameworks are just constantly in your way when you need to do something.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Concrete5 when I was playing around with it. I was very excited by its potential; especially looking at projects where maybe WP was overkill. Where the bottom fell out was in two areas: 1. Paid plugins I cannot rationally tell my clients 'this software might have a few cases where it is easier than WP to use and manage; but you'll be spending several hundred dollars replicating free functionality available on…

1. Yes, there is a lot more of everything available for wordpress (free and paid plugins/themes). I think this is what a lot of the comments here are saying about why Wordpress is so prevalent... not because it's good necessarily, but because it just has so much stuff available for it. FWIW, I build custom-designed sites for my clients, and I deliver complete sites that don't require any additional functionality. I d…

Its quite possible there have been some improvements on the back end since I tried it last. I'll have to give it another shake.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#105

I'm yet to inherit a PHP project that does not contain a file called "functions.php" and it always makes my heart sink when I see it. What I don't get is the demand for all kinds of stuff to be built on top of wordpress that doesn't really have much to do with content management or blogging. For example online games, CRM systems, auction sites etc. Seems a bit like asking for a CMS system that has been implemented as…

Check out the CMS for the Pirateship, a co-working space in Somerville MA. Entirely minecraft based!

http://alt.irateship.com/

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#106

"I’m not going to list all the things that make WP at odds with best practises, but here are the brass tacks" There is a strange paradox that an infatuation with best practices seldom yields a successful product...because it seldom yields a product at all. And those products that do scratch itches and grow and evolve tend to have widely criticized code bases. Wikipedia, Wordpress, Firefox, mySQL, Linux...there isn't…

These things are not all alike. Fx has had many man-hours put into it, attempting to reduce their technical debt and improve the efficiency of maintenance work. They know what's still wrong in the browser, and they're working on it, but progress is slow. There's a reason that Mozilla's working on Rust, and it's not just for S&G. MySQL is so bad that when MariaDB happened, several long-standing architectural issues we…

WP and Wordpress picked the wrong implementation language.

Both of those projects may have gone nowhere had they picked any of numerous other implementation languages.

I am no PHP booster (I find it to be an abomination), but it is the foundation of a remarkable number of successful products, despite being the target of endless criticism. It could very well be that the laissez faire approach that PHP encourages breeds actual results, while many other purist platforms has advocates still arguing about the best way to pass a closure.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#107
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like ExpressionEngine if what you really want is a CMS.

Is ExpressionEngine better for medium to large sites? I've worked with it a bit and did not like it at all, just wondering what it's better for. Did not seem as intuitive for content creators or mom and pop site users.

It's annoying to configure, and the community is infinitesimal compared, but it has a stellar security record, and it's feels much more extensible.

The main thing to consider is that the community isn't like Wordpress's, which is often a pretty big deal when tussling with it.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#108

it seems to me WP has tried to be everything to everybody and the cracks are finally starting to show. I've never been a huge fan of WP for several reasons. One is the horror of trying to crowbar one of their themes into what I want it to look like. The second is the ungodly amount of bloat the have on their themes and templates. Just give me something stripped down and lightweight that I can build on. Too many of th…

You don't have to use anyone else's themes. You can create your own; and its almost as easy as making a regular static site.

There is never a need to 'crowbar' anything when you can create the entire look and feel from scratch.

Re: The dire state of WordPress

#110
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean it's successful because of its lack of rules, and I disagree. WordPress's low barrier to entry stems from a combination of PHP's ubiquity and a positive feedback loop of popularity. More rules wouldn't hurt either of these factors.

More like PHP's ubiquity which leads to easy installs for non-developers. The reason wordpress is so successful doesn't revolve around the devs. It's because your everyday blogger can setup a blog in 20 minutes. The dev focus comes from having so many users.

That's pretty much what I was trying to convey.
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