Hackathons are bad for you • Hacker News Board

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#101

Post by crusso » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 4:38 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #79

crusso wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it doesn't contribute to dehydration, but it sure does contribute to a lot of trips to the bathroom.

Try drinking a few "Venti" glasses of water instead of coffee. You'll find yourself in the bathroom just as often.

Not true. I have gone off coffee and caffeine a couple of times over the last 6 or 7 years. When I drink a few cups of coffee, I'm up to the bathroom a half dozen times a day. When I switch to a water bottle, I only have to go maybe once per day (during work hours). The difference is stark and the amount of liquid is not the issue.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#102

Post by asveikau » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 4:51 PM UTC

I remember the first time I heard the word "hackathon" was in the context of OpenBSD. The folks that worked on that were geographically distributed throughout the world, and approximately once per year they'd meet in a hotel in Canada and have their one chance to work collaboratively in person instead of over email. It sounded cool.

I don't remember when I first heard the Bay Area usage of the word "hackathon", but it sounded decidedly less cool.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#103

Post by shalmanese » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 5:10 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #74

The real crime is that programmers have so little time for the exploratory work that the career requires that they have to do all of that off-hours. Doctors can read medical journals and call it "working time". Most programmers have feces thrown at them if they're caught learning on the job. This is just something we have to suffer until we develop a stronger tribal identity and demand the conditions of a profession…

I don't know if it's a cultural legacy. Most engineering heavy firms where people are allowed to set their own hours have people roll in between 10 and 11. I don't think I've ever been to a tech company where the majority of people are in by 9 unless they have to.

I think plenty of programmers tend to be natural night owls and it's not uncommon for them to be working at 3am out of their own preference.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#104

Post by pjungwir » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 5:12 PM UTC

qdot76367 wrote: post #36

The best piece of advice that no one ever seems to give about hackathons: -- Hackathons may or may not be for you. Try it once. Don't stay the whole time if you don't want. If they aren't for you, don't go again. If they are, great, have an awesome time. -- For some reason, they're touted as this end-all be-all social event that if you don't go to YOU ARE MISSING OUT AND YOU WILL NEVER RECOVER. As many people posted…

This is sane advice.

I've attended two hackathons. The first was for Open Government projects, and it was well-organized and low-pressure. I didn't pull an all-nighter, but I doubt anyone did. I attended the whole thing and really enjoyed myself.

The other was a much bigger affair with at least as many biz folk and designers as programmers. I was pitched on all kinds of half-baked ambitious ideas. It seemed like a big scheme to get programmers to build MVPs on spec. After the first night I didn't go back.

Something I like a lot that is much more sustainable is weekly "hack nights." Here in Portland we have many of these. Generally they meet at a pub, and there are maybe 10 people who show up, work on the side projects, and socialize. I've found those to be great: you meet people, you catch up, and you get a little done. And around 10 or 11 you go home.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#105

Post by Moto7451 » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 5:17 PM UTC

A couple points from my experiences, which are really just a sample of corporately sponsored hackathons in LA:

1. In about 6 hackathons over the course of the year, none had alcohol and only one had a post event get together at a bar (Startup Weekend).

2. Generally speaking the food tends to be pretty good quality if you behave yourself. I've never been to one where fruit and salad weren't available. You can drink a gallon of soda and eat a lot of fattening food if you prefer.

3. If you're paying attention you'll find that the people who leave at a decent hour, sleep, and come back early rested and refreshed get more done. I've always finished every project I've been a part of because I stay sharp.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#106

Post by jami » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

I've only been to hackathons that last eight hours tops and usually involve terrific beer and food (ahh, Portland...).

Especially as a mom with a full-time job, I love the focus on getting things done at hackathons, as contrasted with other nerd gatherings, where the focus is on chit-chat.

Startup Weekend's 48 hours with no sleep model sounds very unhealthy to me, but an excuse to crunch away at a side project for a few hours with free beer and friendly nerds? Yes, please.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#107

Post by nirvanatikku » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 6:12 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #39

tg3 wrote: post #23

> Working late into the night and not sleeping for days is lauded and almost considered a necessity by many these days. > And leaving long-term health out of the equation, lack of sleep hasn’t been known to improve your focus or the ability to be logical or creative, all of which are critical skills for developers. For me personally, I code late at night because it's the only time during the day when I can truly be d…

I totally agree with that, 100%. I just wish I didn't have to get up again in the morning.

or that there were more hours in a day :)

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#108

Post by michaelochurch » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 6:33 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #92

michaelochurch wrote: post #74

The real crime is that programmers have so little time for the exploratory work that the career requires that they have to do all of that off-hours. Doctors can read medical journals and call it "working time". Most programmers have feces thrown at them if they're caught learning on the job. This is just something we have to suffer until we develop a stronger tribal identity and demand the conditions of a profession…

"Your metered work obligation is ~15 hours per week, and the other 25-40 you spend keeping current, networking, and performing other off-meter, self-directed work that is important to you and the profession." That sounds like the work schedule of professors at universities, but that's the only profession that springs to mind.

The professions (especially academia) have all fallen from grace over the past few decades. Given the abysmal quality of leadership the American business world has had (pay more, get less) it shouldn't be surprising.

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#109

Post by tommorris » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 7:07 PM UTC

equalarrow wrote: post #91

Isofarro wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internal hackathons at Yahoo (Europe) were essentially an exercise in futility. They jumped on the hackathon bandwagon, but were unprepared to deal with the after effects of a hackday - what to do with these ideas. From what I saw, hackday was used to pretend the organisation cared about the ideas of it's engineers and web developers, but at a safe enough distance not to affect their product roadmap. When push ca…

Does Yahoo ever do anything with the ideas generated in house? ;)

Yahoo! could have marketed their everyone-has-to-work-in-the-office thing as "hackathon, everyday in the office!"

Re: Hackathons are bad for you

#110

Post by jrs235 » Fri, Mar 01, 2013, 7:12 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #83

michaelochurch wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I shouldn't have picked medicine as an example. The principle of professionalism is sound, but many of the traditional professions have departed from it. Law has outright imploded, while medicine has seen very long hours on account of the doctor shortage. If they aren't seeing patients, they aren't billing. Right, but 2000 hours per year wasn't traditionally the requirement. That may have changed. The profess…

I don't think your point about the AMA is entirely accurate; I know people that have been practicing medicine for 40 years and they would disagree about the increase in hours per week; in fact, residents now have a cap on the number of hours per week they can work, something that didn't exist in the past. A bigger problem with the AMA is that it's made up almost entirely of academics and yet wields a massive amount o…

"A bigger problem with the AMA is that it's made up almost entirely of academics" followed by "There's a continuing education requirement so that they stay current."

Which is the the fox guarding the hen house. The academics controlling the AMA guarantee their own paychecks. And as you said this, academics controlling the AMA, is the bigger problem. It leads to a huge conflict of interests.