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Web Development: A Crazy World

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Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#101

Post by timonv »

marknutter wrote: post #70
timonv wrote: post #60

Web Development is fine, it's the Javascript, and especially the frontend world that's the problem. Why do we bother with a language that's inconcise, lacks so many common, useful functions (enumerals, strings, etc), and general doesn't do what we want it to do? In spite of fundamental problems, people try to address them with custom solutions. Those are inherently very PERSONAL solutions - because everyone wants to…

I'm shocked nobody has pointed this out, but we "bother" with javascript because it runs in browsers, and browsers are ubiquitous. Why does everyone who has personal issues with Javascript or web development in general seem to forget that it has become popular because of the webs ubiquity and the promise of cross-platform development?

And that's exactly the problem. The promise has been there for _years_, it just never has been made up to. Sure, cross-platform development is cool, you can do that in Java. I can also do it in Ruby, Go, Rust, Clojure, Erlang or Haskell. And those solutions don't feel like a duct tape on a drainpipe.

It's still the same as it was 10 years ago, we can't wrap our head around a solution that works for all browsers, hence, we can't just make the language concise, let alone change it fundamentally to solve the more actual problems of front end development. And then, if frameworks don't have to fix a language in their own way, we can get something real going. In any case, I just can't wrap my head around the discrepancy as to why-the-fuck-still.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#102

Post by OldSchool »

Maybe part of the problem is that "design" has been forced to merge with "engineering."

That and everyone seems to want to discover a language or framework like it's an Indy band. "I was using _____ before it became popular." That credential and $5 gets your coffee at Starbucks.

Let's face it. If the high-paying gig comes along and, god-forbid, demands .net or PHP, you're not going to argue, you're going to quickly adapt and get it done right? That's because all these things solve basically the same problem and it's a problem that you're used to solving.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#103

Post by analyst74 »

artursapek wrote: post #75

1. Go to Home Depot. 2. Pick the tools you like. Get a good hammer, saw, adjustable square. 3. Leave Home Depot and go get good with them. 4. If something breaks or doesn't perform a task you need, go back to Home Depot to supplement your toolbox.

alternative step 4: If something breaks, hammer it until it looks like a nail.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#104

Post by cglee »

The analysis paralysis on which tools to use really comes from lack of focus on which problems you wish to work on. Many people are either told what problem to work on (employees), or have an unclear focus (I just want a job, any job!).

Therefore, they feel they need to learn and use every tool so that they can be prepared for "choosing the right tool for the job".

The solution is to focus on projects of your choosing. When it's clear that your problem is a nail, you can tackle it with any tool that can pound with force: hammer, mallet or shoe heel will all work; frozen cucumber will not. In other words, there are clear wrong choices - get rid of those and pick one of the right ones. The paralysis melts away once you have a problem around which to frame your analysis.

Another beautiful thing about web development: you can learn to use a hammer (let's say, Rails) and you can use that hammer to pound a million nails.

It's a fallacy to think that you have to learn everything, every methodology, so you can be prepared for some ambiguous future project, in hopes of solving some unforeseen problem.

This approach has another great side effect: you won't be easily side tracked by the new shiny thing that promises async evented dilly every few months. If it doesn’t solve YOUR problem, move on.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#106

Post by FilterJoe »

metaphorm wrote: post #83
cygwin98 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. The current war of numerous Javascript MVC frameworks reminds me of the situation of Python Web Framework a few years ago, the community was confused by so many choices to select from. In the end, nobody wins, even the ultimate winner Django lost the opportunity to become mainstream. In that sense, the merging of Rails and Merb seemed to be a wise and successful strategic move in hindsight.

Django is pretty mainstream. Its not as popular as Rails but its hardly a maverick. I think the reason why Python never went all in on a single web framework is just because the Python community itself is much larger and more diverse than the Ruby community. Consequently there were alot more opinions and alot more people willing to develop those opinions into separate projects. Maybe you're right that there are advan…

With Django in specific you can swap out a component. For example, if (like many people) you don't like the HTML template syntax, just swap it out for Jinja2 or Mako. In Django it is also usually easy to customize something minor by use of overrides (OOP).

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#107

Post by yogo »

dvanduzer wrote: post #64
benihana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second sentence really tells all. " Just learned Backbone.js and only found out it’s already out of fashion ." This is why critical thinking and a sight of the big picture is so important. Who cares if something is fashionable? Does Backbone help you solve your problems? Yes? then use it. No? Don't use it.

There can be significant risk in choosing unfashionable tools if upstream maintenance dies off and you aren't equipped to maintain them yourself.

I think this goes for the latest and most hyped where the communities could be small. A good middle ground would be well-established projects with a relatively big community and preferably strong industry ties. Usually projects over a certain size will survive by some faction of the community even if it's losing steam or something dramatic happens sort of like MySQL and MariaDB.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#109

Post by 42tree »

cygwin98 wrote: post #73
42tree wrote: post #22

This piece first appeared as a comment on this page in ENGLISH in July 2012: http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-s... while the author claimed to have it translated from Chinese back to English, surprisingly almost exactly the same as the original English version. I guess English-Chinese-English translation has reached an amazing stage!

OP here. I've updated my blog to credit eranation (author of the original English post) and relevant links. I was not aware of the existence of the original English post and thought that I should share it as lots of us suffers the same frustration. I guess English-Chinese-English translation has reached an amazing stage! I would take it as a compliment as my 'unofficial English version' isn't too far off.

Yes, it is a compliment :) btw, if it is possible can you also show the link to the Chinese version?

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#110

Post by MitziMoto »

rpeden wrote: post #30

I've found that a large subset of programmers share the same trait as a large subset of photographers: they become so obsessed with tools that they lose sight of the fact that the end product is what matters at the end of the day. For example: there are many people who spend thousands on cameras and gear, and still take terrible photos. There are many developers who spend a lot of time keeping up with what they think…

Another problem with this is that tech companies (mostly startups) also fall into this trap where they feel like if they're not using the absolute latest and greatest frameworks they cannot be successful. This leads them to only hire developers who are "experts" with these frameworks (which is basically no one since they're so new) and they spend more time figuring out how to adapt this new technology to their business than they do shipping an MVP. It becomes a viscious circle because now the developers who are experts in some older technology feel like they have to spend all their time learning the latest shiny toy so that they can compete for jobs with said startups.
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