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PHP needs a vision

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Re: PHP needs a vision

#101

Post by citricsquid »

LaRakel wrote: post #72
jtreminio wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing a language with a framework. A more apt comparison is rails with symfony2 or zend framework2.

You're right. Still I can compare doing web development using ruby on rails with doing it in php without a framework. I've done both, rails was much more pleasurable. See? I just compared the overall experience of a language with that of a framework.

Are the sort of people writing straight PHP the sort of people who would be using rails? Try a PHP framework like Laravel and then compare that to Rails.

Re: PHP needs a vision

#102

Post by tom_m »

cies wrote: post #15
cies wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I find nothing much 'general purpose' about PHP. The language has configuration files! That alone prohibits me from doing anything generic with it. So all that's left for me is 'focus on web development'. And to be honest: I think today it is not even so good at that. We have server side JS (Node), Ruby, Python and Java -- all freely available with huge communities. Does PHP stack up against these today? I…

On a more positive note: I think the Symfony team actually has the vision: provided it has to be with PHP, let's make a full stack web development framework (like Rails) that does not suck, and create heaps of interesting components/libraries that can be used perfectly on their own in the process! These guys and girls are showing to what extend PHP can be pushed, they also build a fair share of general purpose libs t…

Don't forget Lithium. Also a great vision.

Re: PHP needs a vision

#103

Post by tom_m »

fleitz wrote: post #57
kjackson2012 wrote: post #51

I come from a C++ background, and early last year tried my hand at web development. After hearing about all the stuff about how PHP was an "old", kludgey language, I tried to learn python, and go the webpy. It was doable, but I kept running into issues all the time. I gave up and switched to PHP, and I have to say that it was a much easier experience. For the most part, everything just worked. Regardless of how kludg…

PHP works fine as long as you're never exposed to a better way. In a year or two start using rails. You'll come back to PHP and wonder why anyone would ever make a hammer with two claws.

You really have to be kidding...

Re: PHP needs a vision

#106

Post by [deleted] »

Tichy wrote: post #37
memla wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some value in comments like yours. It brings to light just how many of these PHP bashing statements are biased and uninformed knee-jerk reactions, and therefore, should not be taken seriously by any rational person.

How do my comments reveal how informed I am? You know nothing about my experiences with PHP. Anyway, don't bother - I'll let you own your little PHP discussion now, moving on. My comments on HN won't stop the calamity anyway.

[deleted]

Re: PHP needs a vision

#107

Post by fleitz »

citricsquid wrote: post #101
LaRakel wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. Still I can compare doing web development using ruby on rails with doing it in php without a framework. I've done both, rails was much more pleasurable. See? I just compared the overall experience of a language with that of a framework.

Are the sort of people writing straight PHP the sort of people who would be using rails? Try a PHP framework like Laravel and then compare that to Rails.

I took a look at that, it appears that you unzip the framework and then start modifying it directly. After you "upload it to your webserver". Deployment? Source Control? No, not in PHP, you just modify shit right on the webserver.

I'm sure this process makes upgrading painless, just unzip the framework and... wait... all your changes just got overwritten.

This kind of crap is exactly why everyone with a clue laughs at PHP.

Re: PHP needs a vision

#108

Post by icelancer »

flyosity wrote: post #71
icelancer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah good one. Wordpress is a great example of a huge failure written in PHP over 5 files, right?

The codebase of Wordpress is an utterly terrible, offensive, kludgy, hacked-together mess of spaghetti code. The last time I looked at the internals it still lacked a coherent MVC structure. There are big, good things built with PHP, written the right way with solid software engineering principles, but Wordpress is not one of them.

Yeah, it's very evident in the fact that no one uses it, too. PHP sucks.

Re: PHP needs a vision

#109

Post by icelancer »

jessedhillon wrote: post #65
icelancer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah good one. Wordpress is a great example of a huge failure written in PHP over 5 files, right?

Yes, it is a "good one." Wordpress' source looks like spaghetti with shit sauce. The fact that it runs is a testament to something, but not the readability, maintainability, or usability of the code base. Those people wouldn't know a well-designed API if, well, fill in the rest here.

Good point. Must be why no one uses it.

Re: PHP needs a vision

#110

Post by davidlumley »

twodayslate wrote: post #83
icelancer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah good one. Wordpress is a great example of a huge failure written in PHP over 5 files, right?

Or facebook. http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=2356432130

Facebook _doesn't_ run PHP. A large portion of it is coded in PHP, but it runs C++ through HipHop[1]. Facebook may as well be written in anything that compiles down to C++.

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP

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