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Keeping Safari a secret

donmelton.com

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Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#101

Post by schrodinger »

mpyne wrote: post #98
schrodinger wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember using KHTML back before Safari was out, and it was wayyy behind Firefox. I'd bet that KHTML was mostly just a sane starting point that needed a significant amount of work to complete with IE/Firefox.

Safari pre-dated Firefox, so something about your recollection is a bit off here. Perhaps you're thinking of SeaMonkey or Phoenix as the point of comparison? Either way according to Wikipedia, Don had forked KHTML/KJS in 2001 (which pre-dated the first public release of Phoenix by a year or so), so his choices were to hack SeaMonkey into something suitable or to start from somewhere else.

I think you're right about using SeaMonkey. Either, I remember using some Mozilla based browser that was way ahead of KHTML that is still used

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#102

Post by lnanek2 »

duopixel wrote: post #40

I distinctly remember how the web dev world (myself included) groaned at the prospect of supporting another rendering engine. Gecko was clearly the best browser at the time, and the choice of KHTML seemed bizarre, to say the least. Even the intention of Apple building it's own web browser seemed weird, Apple had failed at a previous homebrewed browser (Cyberdog), why not just build on top of what Mozilla had already…

Amusingly, before Chrome, Google used to contribute a lot of engineers to Firefox/Mozilla. They decided to do their own after deciding they weren't happy with it. I don't quite recall the main reason, might have had something to do with some sort of mess for cross compiling or variable sizes or something mainly.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#103

Post by neumann_alfred »

sbuk wrote: post #92
sbuk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow.

Ok. I was responding to you rather arrogant assertion that Don's interesting article was "meh". I'd argue that neither WebKit or Safari are trivial. WebKit is arguably the biggest HTML renderer out there and a heck of a lot of people access the internet using Safari. It's fine that you didn't find it interesting, really, that's ok, just don't be a dick about it.

Oh get off it. Yeah, it's perfectly fine for me to find something "meh", how fantastic of you to notice; especially after someone said not reading the in-depth details of it would have made my life more boring; I took exception to be included in that; the nerve of now crying!

Geez. This may come as a shock to you, but the fact that a lot of people use Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook or whatever doesn't mean squat to me when it comes to find things "fascinating"; sometimes big isn't beautiful, sometimes it just means someone can't stop pushing people into their pie hole, and that some people actually stand for that. I don't fucking care if either of those parties understand or like my comments, and your "being a dick" is my "not being one".

Sure, WebKit is a nice rendering engine in parts, it's prefix-infested bullshit in others; but when it comes to browser UI and options, Safari isn't even mediocre. Even if it was the best it would be that way for selfish, needy reasons. It's kinda like I don't even care how IE10 is going to be, I won't use it nor develop for it. The awesome thing about convictions is that you don't need the approval of people who don't share them.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#105

Post by sbuk »

neumann_alfred wrote: post #103
sbuk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. I was responding to you rather arrogant assertion that Don's interesting article was "meh". I'd argue that neither WebKit or Safari are trivial. WebKit is arguably the biggest HTML renderer out there and a heck of a lot of people access the internet using Safari. It's fine that you didn't find it interesting, really, that's ok, just don't be a dick about it.

Oh get off it. Yeah, it's perfectly fine for me to find something "meh", how fantastic of you to notice; especially after someone said not reading the in-depth details of it would have made my life more boring; I took exception to be included in that; the nerve of now crying! Geez. This may come as a shock to you, but the fact that a lot of people use Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook or whatever doesn't mean squat…

So instead of making asinine or pointless comments, say nothing. Judging by your post though, it seems that you are far too narcissistic to remain quite.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#106

Post by rjzzleep »

donmelton wrote: post #20
georgemcbay wrote: post #15

"Which explains why the Safari user agent string has so much extra information in it, e.g. KHTML, like Gecko — the names of other browser engines." Wasn't Safari/WebKit largely based on KHTML in the beginning? This doesn't say it wasn't, but seems to imply that there was a separation of the two that was more complete than it really was. I realize the OP is in a better position than I to know exactly what the reasonin…

Yes, WebKit was based on KHTML and KJS. Even in the beginning, we made a few fundamental changes. Some of those were folded back in, but eventually those differences grew much, much larger. There actually were some sites (in Europe, as I recall) that behaved a bit better when "KHTML" was in the user agent string. I also included it as a nod to the original project. I wanted to show respect for the fine work of Lars K…

well yeah, because you guys were sending huge blobs of text back instead of proper formatted patches. didn't make you the most welcome forkers out there.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#107

Post by neumann_alfred »

sbuk wrote: post #105
neumann_alfred wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh get off it. Yeah, it's perfectly fine for me to find something "meh", how fantastic of you to notice; especially after someone said not reading the in-depth details of it would have made my life more boring; I took exception to be included in that; the nerve of now crying! Geez. This may come as a shock to you, but the fact that a lot of people use Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook or whatever doesn't mean squat…

So instead of making asinine or pointless comments, say nothing. Judging by your post though, it seems that you are far too narcissistic to remain quite.

Why does that not apply to that schmuck and their ideas about what makes life interesting? Someone helpfully summarized the article and got a dumb fucking comment in response; I reacted to that, and why wouldn't I. Just like you guys are entitled to your whining, or whatever the fuck that is.

Re: Keeping Safari a secret

#108

Post by sbuk »

neumann_alfred wrote: post #107
sbuk wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of making asinine or pointless comments, say nothing. Judging by your post though, it seems that you are far too narcissistic to remain quite.

Why does that not apply to that schmuck and their ideas about what makes life interesting? Someone helpfully summarized the article and got a dumb fucking comment in response; I reacted to that, and why wouldn't I. Just like you guys are entitled to your whining, or whatever the fuck that is.

"Someone helpfully summarized the article and got a dumb fucking comment in response" No, they didn't. They got a reasonable disagreement. You reacted to it arrogantly. I jovially suggested that your assertion was wrong and you went super nova! The whole thread is there for all to see. You need to work on you people and communication skills. Some free advice. Lose the attitude. Like it or not, that 'schmuck' has contributed significantly to the world of computing. What he has to say is interesting. It's also an interesting insight into a secretive company that has seen unparalleled success until very recently. So those combined, if you are a young entrepreneurial developer, you should listen. You might even learn something.
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