Live data from Hacker News

A misalignment of AI in mathematics

mathandai.org

101–110 of 642 posts

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#101
> We are witnessing a general threat to intellectual work, with misalignment between the outcome of the use of AI and its initial purpose. In many fields and activities, years of training have traditionally served not only to produce a final answer or product, but also to develop understanding and the ability to formulate new questions and ideas. However, building on a vast body of previous human work, AI systems are becoming increasingly capable of producing the results of such work directly, and these goals cease to align.

This is about how good taste in both research direction and in design are essential to steering AI, but we have no plan at all for instilling that taste in students or practitioners in a post-AI world.

> The issues the mathematical community faces now are similar to issues that other scientific and creative professions are facing, and indicate issues that all of humanity might face: how to make sure that, as AI changes the way work is done, we do not lose sight of what that work was meant to achieve in the first place.

Besides eroding taste and taste-building, this is about just how useful friction is as signal.

Everyone coding with AI knows it routes around difficulties like a river around a stone, which is not necessarily a good thing. It will do it tirelessly 1000 times instead of learning anything from it. AND if the AI does not fail in this, the human driver will get no signal, and never know it happened. This seems to be getting worse, not better.. my theory is that more models are cross-trained on cybersecurity stuff where the goal is success and the method doesn't matter. Fine for pen-testing, ultimately pretty bad for coherent code or math or physics.

Discrete tasks where we don't want to be bothered is a real use-case, but optimizing for it everywhere is terrible for the future of durable abstractions that we can build on and ratchet up our understanding with. Bad for the models too eventually! They can maintain a codebase with millions of special cases or juggle tons of free variables in equations, but that just encourages bad abstractions.. they have a ceiling for this too, even if it's higher than humans.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#102
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Puts the onus on the AI companies to provide a specific replacement mechanism, no? Why? If someone makes an innovation that undercuts the underpinnings of some existing institution, why are they are responsible for cleaning up its failure?

They’re not asking them to stop working on AI, but to stop publishing mathematics.

In other news, evangelical christians ask scientists to stop publishing about evolution.

We apparently have a moral obligation to protect existing power structures?

Tao should maybe consider there are people who are indifferent to, or actively want to tear down, his institutions; why should they cooperate in preserving them? Whatever happens has to be resilient in the face of defection; any scheme where everyone is expected to agree to not use AI in a way he doesn't like will not qualify.

I think he's in the "bargaining" stage of dealing with loss right now.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#104
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its by choice. Mathematicians still can use AI to "achieve the primary goal of conceptual understanding and insight"

At the individual level any mathematicians can, but the social group of “mathematicians” will not unless drastic social changes are made, because that's not how the system works today. Drastic social changes usually take decades, and funerals, to occur, so the reasonable hypothesis is that it's not going to change fast enough.

Tao has enough moat (name, funding) to make shift happen and even capitalize on this.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#105

[flagged]

The biggest cope is buying OpenAI's "We can't prove we didn't plagiarize" Apparently, we have AGI that can solve Millennium Prize problems but can't trace simple data flows lol.

How is it plagiarism if no one else had the full proof idea first?

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a paper in JEMS and have solved 20 year old conjectures. I also know that math academia is a catty game which is mostly driven by politics and ego

Perhaps these Fields Medalists are coping that OpenAI made them look stupid, as you suggested. And perhaps you're coping because of some personal grudge you have against academia.

Both are true I admit

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "loving math for maths sake" just about knowing the answers? I think one can love math for exactly the process and understanding that a several-thousand-line uncommented Lean proof denies. If a deity rearranged the stars to spell out "The Riemann hypothesis is false" for a night, would that be intellectually sufficient?

No that's not sufficient but that's not what's happening. Why do we believe that we cannot train models which could explain the jargon in more human terms when current LLMs can perfectly explain the most complicated codebases?

[deleted]

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#110

To me it doesn't seem like what AI has destroyed is the ability for mathematicians to develop understanding and share it with each other, but rather it's destroyed the yardstick (solving open problems) that has traditionally been used to measure how much they have contributed to that understanding. I do see how this is a problem in terms of assigning credit, but I think the cat is already out of the bag in terms of t…

Agreed. The problem is not with AI per se, but with the reward mechanism in academia in general.

For those outside academia, the ”reward mechanism” is a choice between A) being a genius and working hard to become a leader in your field, B) becoming very good at writing grant applications, C) capitulating to corporations and living with the moral burden of their exploits
Post reply on HN