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What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

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Re: What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

#101
post #83
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a friend who believed that large cities should be abolished and society should be made agrarian by law. She believed that that way we would have more free time to pursue our intellectual curiosities, unburdened by our dependence on and duty to urban society. I was like... I'm descended from farm folk. My mom grew up in a farmhouse that had no television and not even indoor plumbing for the first few years of he…

You have people right on this website who are convinced medieval peasants lived a life of leisure and worked 100 days a year.

All based on some extremely shoddy writing from 1993:

> The origin point for nearly all of those “you work harder than a medieval peasant” memes and articles is Juliet Schor’s The Overworked American (1993). The argument has been debunked quite a few times, so I won’t belabor the point here. Schor bases her estimates of medieval working hours on a 1935 article by Nora Kenyon,1 and an unpublished article by Gregory Clark,2 and in both cases ignores the authors’ careful efforts to distinguish between total days worked and instead just cherry-picks the lowest number, even as the authors caution that those numbers likely don’t represent someone’s total employment. Kenyon notes a set of day-laborers working 120 days per year which makes it into Schor’s work, but Kenyon’s final suggestion that the normal annual working year was 308 days does not, for instance. I can’t get at an unpublished article, but Clark has continued to write on the topic and in his 2018 “Growth or stagnation?” presents a detailed argument for a 250-300-day work-year with no sense that this is a revision of his previous positions, leading me to suspect similar cherry-picking as with Kenyon.

https://acoup.blog/2025/09/05/collections-life-work-death-an...

Re: What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

#102
post #44

I always feel so disconnected to my fellow humans when I hear people longing for "simpler times" where they are just out in nature with no technology or modern tools. I would be miserable living simply like that. I don't like spending too much time in nature, I get hot and sweaty and itchy and bothered by bugs. I am always wishing to be building something with electronics, or playing a game, or watching a show or mov…

Have you spent lots of time out in the wilderness before? Those you describe aren’t pleasant, but you learn to accept and deal with. I’m sure the are all kinds of unpleasantness in a “civilized” lifestyle that you no longer even notice because you’re just so used to accommodating them: traffic noise, pollution, artificial light, etc. I once spent a week hiking and camping in a rain forest. The first day I was trying…

I have spent enough time in nature to know what what I like and don’t like. I am 43 years old, and grew up with a family who went camping multiple times a year all through my childhood. I have some good memories, but I always looked forward to going home to my air conditioner and computers.

I enjoy some time in the forests, especially here in California, and I enjoy short hikes and mountains and the ocean (although I really hate sand.)

Part of it is allergies; I recently was finally tested, and it turns out I am severely allergic to almost all trees and grasses, which explains why I always get so itchy when I am out in nature. I am doing weekly shots to help, and have taken allergy medicine for years (even before I was tested), so we will see if that gets better.

I don’t know what to say about the hot and sweaty and bugs other than to say I think I know myself, and tried for decades to push through those feelings because everyone told me the same thing as you, that being in nature was so great and those things are just part of it and to power through. It never happened for me, and I find the opposite to be true for me… I can power through the discomfort for a while, but eventually it gets to be too much and I need to get away somewhere cool and clean.

I get that you are trying to be helpful and are sharing your experience, but the idea that I am somehow just not understanding how to enjoy nature properly a bit condescending. As I said, I am 43 years old and have spent a ton of time in nature. I have young children, and want them to be able to experience nature, too, so I do spend quite a bit of time in nature these days, because I do think it is important for them.

I have lived in large cities and suburbs, I know the trade offs for both. I agree about the annoyance of traffic and other attributes of the city.

However, you don’t really suffer many of them while you are inside of your house. I have a perfect little personal bubble, where I control the temperature and sounds and light levels. I just like being inside my house, I have infinite things I want to do here.

I have also learned great ways to enjoy nature in my own manner over the years. Our family doesn’t camp, but we do love to rent cabins in the woods. We can go on hikes, the kids can play around in the trees, but then we can go inside and turn on the AC and take warm showers and sleep in nice clean beds.

That is how I like to enjoy nature, on my terms.

I used to feel guilty about this (and a lot of my other preferences that always made me feel like I was doing something wrong or not enjoying life properly, like my dislike of crowds and partying), but as I have gotten older I have become a lot more comfortable with myself and who I am, and no longer feel the need to try to fit in with what I am supposed to like. Finding my wife helped a lot, because she is similar to me and we are very compatible in our lifestyles. Now that I found a partner and have my own family, I no longer feel the need to fit in with how others think I should live my life.

So I hope you really enjoy your trips in nature, and continue to experience it however you want. I will do the same.

Re: What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

#103
post #19

I always feel so disconnected to my fellow humans when I hear people longing for "simpler times" where they are just out in nature with no technology or modern tools. I would be miserable living simply like that. I don't like spending too much time in nature, I get hot and sweaty and itchy and bothered by bugs. I am always wishing to be building something with electronics, or playing a game, or watching a show or mov…

your experience is not applicable to others, thanks for your feedback and we appreciate it. Lots of people understand that nature is a part of life just like you are and live accordingly.

I 100% agree with this, and I fully support people who want to live their lives however they want to. I have no delusions that my preferences are universal.

I just want others to accept the same about me and my preferences.

Re: What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

#104

I always feel so disconnected to my fellow humans when I hear people longing for "simpler times" where they are just out in nature with no technology or modern tools. I would be miserable living simply like that. I don't like spending too much time in nature, I get hot and sweaty and itchy and bothered by bugs. I am always wishing to be building something with electronics, or playing a game, or watching a show or mov…

> I get hot and sweaty and itchy and bothered by bugs Maybe go somewhere colder, or in a different season.

I live in Southern California, where the temperature is amazing all year round. It doesn’t matter, I still get sweaty and sticky when I am out in nature. We don’t even have many bugs here, it is nothing like when I visit family in Wisconsin or New York, so I don’t know of many places I can go that it will be better.

Re: What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

#105
post #15

I always feel so disconnected to my fellow humans when I hear people longing for "simpler times" where they are just out in nature with no technology or modern tools. I would be miserable living simply like that. I don't like spending too much time in nature, I get hot and sweaty and itchy and bothered by bugs. I am always wishing to be building something with electronics, or playing a game, or watching a show or mov…

> I don't like spending too much time in nature, I get hot and sweaty and itchy and bothered by bugs To me, it sounds like you haven't been in nature at enough places to find the one that talks and belongs to you. Travel more.

I am 43 years old and have been to many countries and locales. I have enjoyed nature plenty of times. I like short hikes, and pretty views, and seeing different types of nature. I just like to go home to a nice air conditioned room, with a warm shower and clean bed afterwards, and I only want to spend a smaller fraction of my time out in nature.

Re: What we want is a hunter gatherer lifestyle with space age tools (2022)

#106
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you spent lots of time out in the wilderness before? Those you describe aren’t pleasant, but you learn to accept and deal with. I’m sure the are all kinds of unpleasantness in a “civilized” lifestyle that you no longer even notice because you’re just so used to accommodating them: traffic noise, pollution, artificial light, etc. I once spent a week hiking and camping in a rain forest. The first day I was trying…

Love it and totally agree. The comfort we think we need is nothing else than hedonic adaptation.

I don’t disagree that I could survive without the comfort, and I would probably get used to the discomfort after a while and wouldn’t think about it as much.

What I don’t understand is why it is bad to have gotten used to modern luxuries, or why my life would be better if I gave those up and lived more primitively.

There is a reason we created all of these creature comforts for ourselves, and why very few people actually go through with giving it all up and returning to a more primitive lifestyle. Those things are nice, and most people want them. That is why they were invented in the first place!

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