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US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

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Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#101

Post by silverquiet »

everdrive wrote: post #82
wraptile wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Livestock: ~730 billion gal This is a good illustration how cursed the datacenter topic has become when people go out of their minds on computer cooling while continuing to eat meat which lets be perfectly clear - is mostly for entertainment purposes. I had someone berate me for defending datacenter water use and their last post was literally a cheese burger.

There would need to be some articulable upside to data centers, though. Even if we agree there should be less livestock, I don't see how that has any bearing on the data centers topic.

I assume HN runs on machines in a datacenter. The servers that serve my business also reside in a datacenter. I see lots of upsides to datacenters, and they've been around long before they were controversial.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#102

Post by theultdev »

everdrive wrote: post #82
wraptile wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Livestock: ~730 billion gal This is a good illustration how cursed the datacenter topic has become when people go out of their minds on computer cooling while continuing to eat meat which lets be perfectly clear - is mostly for entertainment purposes. I had someone berate me for defending datacenter water use and their last post was literally a cheese burger.

There would need to be some articulable upside to data centers, though. Even if we agree there should be less livestock, I don't see how that has any bearing on the data centers topic.

It's to put water usage in perspective. I think the best example is golf courses.

If you think datacenters are a waste of water and you want to do a global campaign to stop building / shutdown golf courses first, then your values don't really make sense.

Golf is pure leisure, and uses 531 gallons compared to 17.4 gallons a year.

Datacenters on the other hand, power the site we're using right now to discuss the "problem". You wouldn't be able to have this conversation without them.

--

Why aren't people screaming constantly about golf courses and pressuring to shut them down?

Why the focus on datacenters if the bigger win is staring you right in the face (if you're that concerned about water usage)?

It's not about the water.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#103

Post by Fricken »

avalys wrote: post #6

This is a manufactured propaganda issue by dishonest and/or innumerate people. However, can’t data centers just use closed-loop cooling and avoid this whole thing? With all the money going into AI, it’s hard to imagine it being prohibitively costly.

The article links to a report from the library of congress, from which it gets it's numbers. The congressional report is quite informative, and and non-partisan.

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R49057

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#104

Post by shimman »

letmevoteplease wrote: post #83
shimman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value almonds more than LLM slop.

I think most of the people who act like this are secretly using ChatGPT like a Republican on Grindr.

Yes I use LLMs at work because I'm "highly encouraged" to as a condition to keep my job. All I see is more paying customers finding more bugs and having a worse experience using our products.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#105

Post by jcranmer »

paroneayea wrote: post #95
thevinter wrote: post #13

Irrespective of how this number is calculated, whether is blue/green water etc here is some comparison data for context, since I personally think that hearing big numbers without any point of reference is pointless. Annual withdrawals (2015) - Thermoelectric power: ~48.5 trillion gal - Irrigation: ~43.1 trillion gal - Public supply: ~14.2 trillion gal - Self-supplied industrial: ~5.4 trillion gal - Aquaculture: ~2.76…

The report says that water consumption tripled due to AI datacenters, in 2023! Most of it was on electricity generation to support the datacenters. But that's tripled of water use across all sectors due to datacenter buildout. So no "comparison" to other uses is needed. EDIT: Ah, I did misread it. Sorry!

No, it doesn't.

It says that datacenters now use 3× the amount of water they used to use--it's specifically limited to that very, very narrow sector.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#106

Post by chneu »

wraptile wrote: post #87
zug_zug wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the thing with the livestock is that you have to give a cow water. Datacenters do not need water . It is just slightly cheaper for them than cooling with electricity. Datacenters should be required by law to pay to build adequate power generation and infrastructure to pay for their consumption, and ideally in a way where it isn't a ghastly eyesore.

> Well the thing with the livestock is that you have to give a cow water. you don't _need_ a cow though

Exactly. You also don't need to grow acres of grass in the desert to feed the cow, but we do that too.

Most folks have highly distorted views of how animal agriculture works. It's disgusting and insanely inefficient.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#107

Post by lightedman »

jp191919 wrote: post #74
zug_zug wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the thing with the livestock is that you have to give a cow water. Datacenters do not need water . It is just slightly cheaper for them than cooling with electricity. Datacenters should be required by law to pay to build adequate power generation and infrastructure to pay for their consumption, and ideally in a way where it isn't a ghastly eyesore.

We do not need meat.

In fact many humans need meat because the proper plant protein simply cannot grow/exist in their area.

This is why we evolved to be omnivores. Basic biology laughs at your poorly-researched position.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#108

Post by naasking »

paroneayea wrote: post #95
thevinter wrote: post #13

Irrespective of how this number is calculated, whether is blue/green water etc here is some comparison data for context, since I personally think that hearing big numbers without any point of reference is pointless. Annual withdrawals (2015) - Thermoelectric power: ~48.5 trillion gal - Irrigation: ~43.1 trillion gal - Public supply: ~14.2 trillion gal - Self-supplied industrial: ~5.4 trillion gal - Aquaculture: ~2.76…

The report says that water consumption tripled due to AI datacenters, in 2023! Most of it was on electricity generation to support the datacenters. But that's tripled of water use across all sectors due to datacenter buildout. So no "comparison" to other uses is needed. EDIT: Ah, I did misread it. Sorry!

> But that's tripled of water use across all sectors due to datacenter buildout. So no "comparison" to other uses is needed.

You're saying almond farm water use tripled due to data center buildout? What other meaning of "all sectors" could make sense of this claim? The report clearly says 17 billion while all other sectors are in the trillions.

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#109

Post by everdrive »

silverquiet wrote: post #101
everdrive wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would need to be some articulable upside to data centers, though. Even if we agree there should be less livestock, I don't see how that has any bearing on the data centers topic.

I assume HN runs on machines in a datacenter. The servers that serve my business also reside in a datacenter. I see lots of upsides to datacenters, and they've been around long before they were controversial.

And you own clothing that was made with child labor. You monster. Why do you love child labor so much?

Re: US data centers tripled annual water consumption to 17B gallons

#110

Post by skinfaxi »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #84
zug_zug wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the thing with the livestock is that you have to give a cow water. Datacenters do not need water . It is just slightly cheaper for them than cooling with electricity. Datacenters should be required by law to pay to build adequate power generation and infrastructure to pay for their consumption, and ideally in a way where it isn't a ghastly eyesore.

You don't need a law to force people to pay for resources they consume; basic economics already ensures that. If there are externalities not already accounted for by that (increased demand for water/electricity driving up costs for others, noise, "eyesores", etc.) you could pass laws to ensure those costs are paid by the responsible party but that's not a datacenter-specific issue.

How does that work in a market where you are bidding amongst other participants and capacity is constrained? Supply is limited and demand is growing, the market response is to charge more.
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