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Anger, Anxiety and Agency

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Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#101

Post by BeetleB »

asdfman123 wrote: post #95
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32

I was taught that anger isn't an emotion. It's a reaction -a defensive surge of adrenaline, binary thinking, and motivation to fight. It can feel empowering and energizing. We aren't just sitting here. We're gonna do something . The emotion is fear. Anger is just a reaction to fear. Basically, if we are angry, we are also scared; whether or not we want to admit it. It's a long topic, and one I know well (I agree with…

Actually, I find it's helpful to privately admit that you do negative things because they DO have some positive side effects. Everything is a tradeoff. Maybe anger helps draw attention to you. Maybe it garners some form of sympathy. Maybe people get out of your way when you're angry, giving you a certain kind of power. The reason why you want to stop being angry is because you want to accomplish things without all th…

> Maybe anger helps draw attention to you. Maybe it garners some form of sympathy. Maybe people get out of your way when you're angry, giving you a certain kind of power.

I know it's much maligned here on HN, but you've articulated one of the key principle of NVC (Nonviolent Communication): Being able to articulate your needs, and map your emotions with your needs.

The steps it recommends (not necessarily in this order):

1. Understand the facts

2. Label the emotions you're feeling (anxious, concerned, jubilant, etc)

3. Figure out the needs that are related to those emotions (e.g. purpose in life, shelter (usually income), hunger (usually income).

Even if you don't follow NVC, pretty much all communications books emphasize all 3 above. Another book had it this way:

1. Label your emotions.

2. Gather the facts.

3. Examine the narrative you're telling yourself based on the facts.

4. Explore that narrative (Is it the only possible narrative given the facts? What is missing in your life that is part of that narrative?)

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#102

Post by BeetleB »

mlsu wrote: post #88

This article falls flat for me. Maybe because I'm angry? >Anxiety as an emotion does not require someone to blame. I know this isn't the "hacker mindset" or whatever. But my anger is well placed and justified. It is pointed at a very specific set of people who are actively doing everything in their power to turn the world into a surveillance spam slop hellscape while massively enriching themselves and destroying the…

I read everything you say, can agree with everything you say, and it still doesn't answer "Why should this make you/me angry?"

As per the article, it does answer why I should be anxious. Not why I should be angry.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#105

Post by kelvinjps10 »

I think being angry is valid, metas employees should be angry that they want to record every move they do to them replace them.

At the same time you can't being angry at your boss because of AI if they're not directly doing something unethical to you, and just using it or asking you because pf productivity.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#106

Post by epsteingpt »

One of the most powerful slides on the topic is Ari Grant's

He showed two pictures at a frustrating situation. The first WHY is this happening? Shaking a fist at the sky in anger. The second why IS this happening? Curiosity.

The second leads to revelations and growth about the company. It also doesn't endanger your job or make people want to work with you.

Work is a social game. Best to learn its rules rather than rage against the machine.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#107

Post by kixiQu »

This seems directed at people who are angry about Things In General. AI as a whole. The Industry. In reality, I think a lot of folks who are the most angry are angry about specifics they observe - tokenmaxxing policies impacting performance reviews, leaders encouraging binning hard-won best practices, coworkers shoving slop in your face, managers seeking funding for crazy AI things everyone knows will fail but look good to VPs while actual critical stuff gets no headcount... It's not looking for "someone to blame" to recognize this stuff around you, and it's by no means "a comforting story".

Maybe there are lots of people out there who are so vague about what they're angry about that this isn't just massively condescending to the rest of us so much as mistargeted. At the same time I've found that folks who really don't believe in these downsides sometimes don't hear you when you bring specifics.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#108

Post by dasil003 »

It's interesting to see the range of reactions to this article, and it feels this is an existential moment for software engineers and an article like this has zero chance of changing anyone's mind.

Personally I'm glad this change is happening after I've already had a couple decades experience. Conventional wisdom is younger people adapt to change better, but in this case I feel some perspective on hype cycles and how they play out is helpful. So far the only thing that is clear is that AI can read and write code way faster than a human. However what I haven't seen is that AI can actually understand human goals, read between the lines, and answer the question: why are we writing this code in the first place?

Obviously with the pace of advancement, it's reasonable to think AI could get there, but here's the thing: so far AI has primarily empowered technically-minded people. Don't get me wrong, it can help many job functions (legal, product management, customer service, etc), but it's really a force multiplier for strong technical minds who can reason about the possibilities and limitations.

For this reason, I think it's premature to think of the end of software engineering as a profession. As with all the other job replacement talk, I think this becomes a political issue where if AI companies are truly capturing a significant share of the labor workforce, then we need to have that discussion as a society. Also, if you really love hand-crafted artisanal code for every random CRUD app under the sun, then yes there is a reckoning coming. But overall, I don't see AI as fundamentally different from many technical advancements that came before. It's uncomfortable, but I don't see the existential questions it raises as being fundamentally new. As software engineers we've been living at the peak of a technological pyramid of advancement that challenged many equally worthy humans before us for quite some time. I think wrestling with the current implications and moral questions is entirely fair play, and gets to the heart of what it means to be a citizen in a democracy.

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#109

Post by InexSquirrel »

BeetleB wrote: post #40
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32

I was taught that anger isn't an emotion. It's a reaction -a defensive surge of adrenaline, binary thinking, and motivation to fight. It can feel empowering and energizing. We aren't just sitting here. We're gonna do something . The emotion is fear. Anger is just a reaction to fear. Basically, if we are angry, we are also scared; whether or not we want to admit it. It's a long topic, and one I know well (I agree with…

> I was taught that anger isn't an emotion. Yes, this is a school of thought I've seen in a few communication circles. It's not entirely accurate, but it's a useful exercise. They teach that anger is really a derived emotion, and is a result of a fundamental emotion, coupled with a narrative in your mind. The fundamental emotion is the real one, and the narrative in your mind maybe inaccurate. As a result, when you'r…

But what's the fundamental emotion then? What is anger derived from?

Re: Anger, Anxiety and Agency

#110

Post by InexSquirrel »

asdfman123 wrote: post #95
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32

I was taught that anger isn't an emotion. It's a reaction -a defensive surge of adrenaline, binary thinking, and motivation to fight. It can feel empowering and energizing. We aren't just sitting here. We're gonna do something . The emotion is fear. Anger is just a reaction to fear. Basically, if we are angry, we are also scared; whether or not we want to admit it. It's a long topic, and one I know well (I agree with…

Actually, I find it's helpful to privately admit that you do negative things because they DO have some positive side effects. Everything is a tradeoff. Maybe anger helps draw attention to you. Maybe it garners some form of sympathy. Maybe people get out of your way when you're angry, giving you a certain kind of power. The reason why you want to stop being angry is because you want to accomplish things without all th…

I think anger has a place - there are circumstances that I think it's needed, but they're basically fight or flight scenarios. The idea that all anger is bad is a naive position to take.

But I think you're talking about anger creeping into daily life and everyday interactions - and in that regard I agree with what you've said. I suspect it also goes hand in hand with victim mentality, which in turn justifies the anger.

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