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Cerebras CS-4

cerebras.ai

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Re: Cerebras CS-4

#101
post #70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely what he is saying, there is diminishing returns (or optimization left on the table).

I read it as it is impressive because smaller models 2.5T are squeezing similar returns as 10T models despite being 1/4th size not that there beyond 2T today the number or parameters do not have much meaning

or the latest qwen3.8 27B doing so well at ~1/100 the size of K3

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#102
OpenAI needs to immediately move to acquire Cerebras.

Nvidia's extreme margin is the opportunity for OpenAI's cost reduction. Buying Cerebras would pay for itself and they should take all of its future production (after filling required contracts).

Right now China's models have no silicon moat. Cerebras as a drastic speed-up / cost-reduction potential, can assist in building a competitive moat. And every time a Cerebras pops up, OpenAI or Anthropic should eat them if at all possible.

There's no stand-alone frontier AI company of great scale in the near future that doesn't have a large silicon advantage in-house. Apple knew it in smartphones, Google figured it out a long time ago as well.

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#103
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rumored fable is around that 10T number

Fable is most definitely nowhere near 10T. The cost to train and infer that would be insane, even by today's standards.

Fable is strongly believed to be around 10T. The most conservative estimate I've seen is 8T.

Eg: https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-targets-mega-ai...

That reports Mythos as 8T and Fable as 5T, but I think they mean Opus as 5T, which is widely known, eg: https://eu.36kr.com/en/p/3760679047267075?ref=explainx

Both Grok and Bytedance are training 10T models.

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#104

I think the fun takeaway from this is that GPT 5.4 is probably 45B active parameters and GPT 5.6 Sol is closer to 50B.

(Where did you see that?) This was also interesting: "CS-4 delivers more than 1,000 tokens per second on models exceeding 10 trillion parameters." Was it known that there were 10 trillion parameter models in use? I think the frontier providers keep the size of their models carefully hidden.

pretty sure 10 trillion parameters is now the norm among closed ai labs, given that nvidia also references the same 10 trillion number for their nvl72 racks

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#105

I think the fun takeaway from this is that GPT 5.4 is probably 45B active parameters and GPT 5.6 Sol is closer to 50B.

(Where did you see that?) This was also interesting: "CS-4 delivers more than 1,000 tokens per second on models exceeding 10 trillion parameters." Was it known that there were 10 trillion parameter models in use? I think the frontier providers keep the size of their models carefully hidden.

Mythos/Fable are around 10T:

> According to FT, industry estimates say Anthropic's most advanced Mythos 5 has about 8 trillion parameters and Fable 5 about 5 trillion

https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-targets-mega-ai...

I believe this report has confused Opus (which is known to be around 5T) and Fable.

Other reports say 10T. See for example https://eu.36kr.com/en/p/3760679047267075?ref=explainx where Musk talks about the models being trained on Colossus2

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#106
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but GPU is just one aspect of NVIDIA's dominance. If you are buying Vera Rubin GPUs, you're getting an NVL72 rack, which is only one of several racks that you're probably buying. You'll also need your NVIDIA racks with NVIDIA networking & storage gear, too. At the end of the day, they're "vertically integrated" for your accelerated computing data center (e.g. the "AI Factory"). This doesn't even count the soft…

Is CUDA still a moat? Are we not at the point where frontier models can reimplement software stacks, given you throw enough tokens at the problem.

if you are developing your own hardware, you provide your own stack to avoid lawsuits with nvidia. i don't think it's a technical problem at all, but a legal one. this is probably why zluda was scrapped by AMD and Intel. Nvidia technically bans the creation of CUDA reimplementations in their TOS if i remember correctly

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#107

OpenAI needs to immediately move to acquire Cerebras. Nvidia's extreme margin is the opportunity for OpenAI's cost reduction. Buying Cerebras would pay for itself and they should take all of its future production (after filling required contracts). Right now China's models have no silicon moat. Cerebras as a drastic speed-up / cost-reduction potential, can assist in building a competitive moat. And every time a Cereb…

Do you know about Jalapeno?

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#108

> CS-4 delivers more than 1,000 tokens per second on models exceeding 10 trillion parameters Oops did they just out GPT-5.6 sol’s parameter count?

I mean we kinda know the frontier models are multi trillion parameter models. The only open weights that are close to the frontier are that size too

save qwen3.8 27B which is outclassing much larger models and is in spitting distance of the top 10 in https://artificialanalysis.ai/models#intelligence

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence why taalas was one of the best strategic acquisitions of the year. I'm honestly baffled they were not acquired by somebody else (sorry AMD).

Taalas will be one of the great disaster investments of the early AI era. It'll be a near total write-down. The absolute worst market time to etch a model to a chip is right now (very rapid iteration). There is no scenario where they can keep up. The Taalas approach will be viewed as comically foolish within just a few years. Cerebras will win in terms of approach. It's 1998: hey, I can drastically speed up your web…

maybe AMD wants the IP to deploy it once ai model development slows down in a few years. Or, their large cloud customers do want to burn through silicon, basically paying rent to AMD for models etched on silicon.

Re: Cerebras CS-4

#110

OpenAI needs to immediately move to acquire Cerebras. Nvidia's extreme margin is the opportunity for OpenAI's cost reduction. Buying Cerebras would pay for itself and they should take all of its future production (after filling required contracts). Right now China's models have no silicon moat. Cerebras as a drastic speed-up / cost-reduction potential, can assist in building a competitive moat. And every time a Cereb…

With what? More debt? What will nvidia say?
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