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Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

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Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#101

Post by MiroslavPokorny »

derektank wrote: post #82
axus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike a disc, you can't use the code without going through the PlayStation Store. And you likely cannot resell it, either. You can't buy a non-Sony PlayStation, I guess they'll argue it's similar.

It does seem like a reasonable middle ground would be something like selling a dongle that provides PIV attestation of ownership, that could be resold and could even be used across platforms. Of course, there’s no incentive for the console manufacturers to offer this.

Game carts have always had "special chips" within them.

The NES and SNES for example had their famous lockout chips which gave Nintendo a monopoly on releasing games, except for the Activision/EA thing were they reversed engineered the chips.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#102

Post by MiroslavPokorny »

braiamp wrote: post #46
wilg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large upfront cost is lower than it would be because its subsidized by buying the games for it! Sony does make the games, they have many excellent first party studios! What are you talking about!

The PS5 was breaking even less than 6 months after its release. They don't subsidize anything. BTW, Nintendo also don't subsidize it. The BOM of the Switch 1 and 2 is lower than the total price including the margins for retailers!

Shops and distributors take a big chunk. The shoppe price is not given in whole to manufacturer if it was who would be paying the shoppe rental and employees ?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#103

Post by MiroslavPokorny »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #9
thrownawaysz wrote: post #6

I'm too small brain to understand the whole monopoly in my own business aspect. Because they are not arguing about game exclusivity, you can buy the same game most of the time on Xbox, Switch, PC (and if not that's an entirely different story) but the fact they want to buy on that platform (Playstation) but from a different store (not Sony). Can't wrap my head around that logic.

Taking Switch as an example, I can buy digital games at Walmart or Amazon. For instance, Amazon might have a sale where their price for a given digital game is ~10% lower than Nintendo's eShop.

It wont be long until Nintendo takes over the complete sell process. It seems strange they have let others take their commission for so long.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#104

Post by chaostheory »

MiroslavPokorny wrote: post #100
jcranmer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Console business has always operated this way. Actually, I think the practice of selling the console at a loss only started with roughly the PS2 or PS3 generation. (The PS3 and later were very definitely sold for a loss, but I've been unable to track down verifiable statements for the PS1 or PS2.)

Pretty sure the SNES and megadrive were sold at a loss as well.

Nintendo does not sell hardware at a loss. That's one of their quirks.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#105

Post by dataflow »

aurareturn wrote: post #94
braiamp wrote: post #38

If people actually read the claims... it's about fair business practices, this is why they are suing Sony: > ... In the EU, it is forbidden for large companies to abuse their position to make more profit at the expense of consumers. Yet Sony does not fully abide by these rules. > > If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. Sony keeps the…

This is not a lawsuit about Sony "taking away my discs", it's something like "Sony allegedly used its control over the PlayStation ecosystem to restrict competition in digital distribution, allowing it to keep prices artificially high and harm consumers". Sony sells their consoles at break even or sometimes at a loss. They hope to make money from their software sales. Console business has always operated this way. Th…

So let's say the breakeven price was $X. You're saying if they sell at ($X-$0.01)/unit then restricting competition is OK but if they sell at $X/unit then it isn't?

Am I representing your stance correctly and if so do you see any potential issues with this?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#106

Post by glitchc »

I don't see the point. It's a private, for-profit entity that controls a walled garden platform that they invented, developed and commoditized. It was always a walled garden, never advertised as anything otherwise. All video games have been a license to play since the days of Pong, unless explicitly indicated otherwise. We never owned the actual software and by buying the game, we agreed that our access to the software could change at any point in the future. Does this lawsuit hope to upend ~60 years of contract law?

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#107

Post by glitchc »

mikestew wrote: post #51
tumidpandora wrote: post #15

Going digital was inevitable, i'd rather focus on making digital ownership better than fight to restore discs or game codes to 3rd parties

That's not what TFA is on about at all, it's about the monopoly Sony has on selling digital games exclusively through their store. Physical discs don't enter into it.

It's not a monopoly in the console market. There are two other competitors all of whom have roughly equal market share. And they are all walled gardens so Sony is not doing anything differently from its competitors.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#108

Post by troupo »

ekianjo wrote: post #71
braiamp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck are you talking about? Both Apple and Google were hit by the EU anti-gatekeeping law. I am not going to engage with the rest since it's based on a supposition that is plainly wrong.

So Apple in the EU allows for alternative app stores?

Yes, and they've spent extraordinary amount of time snd resources to be as maliciously compliant as possible.

Re: Stop Killing Games: It's time to sue Sony, join us

#110

Post by aurareturn »

dataflow wrote: post #105
aurareturn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a lawsuit about Sony "taking away my discs", it's something like "Sony allegedly used its control over the PlayStation ecosystem to restrict competition in digital distribution, allowing it to keep prices artificially high and harm consumers". Sony sells their consoles at break even or sometimes at a loss. They hope to make money from their software sales. Console business has always operated this way. Th…

So let's say the breakeven price was $X. You're saying if they sell at ($X-$0.01)/unit then restricting competition is OK but if they sell at $X/unit then it isn't? Am I representing your stance correctly and if so do you see any potential issues with this?

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that the business of gaming consoles is to not make money on the hardware or even make a loss in hopes of making money on software.

There are gaming businesses that make a profit on hardware such as Nvidia GPUs, AMD gaming CPUs, etc. Consumers should have a choice:

- Expensive gaming hardware but more choices for gaming app stores

- Cheap gaming hardware but only one gaming app store allowed

Let the consumers decide what is best for them. Both business models should be allowed.

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