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The AI Demand Bubble

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101–110 of 160 posts

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#101
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You clearly don't like the idea there are some businesses in the AI mix that will continue making money and/or diversify their divisions to cover for any losses they suffer during this hypothetical crash or I wouldn't be getting downvoted for it. Me? I didn't downvote you for it and you are projecting a lot onto me without a sound basis. Either way, my predictions are all personal, because as someone with his own p…

Look, if you like his vibes, that's totally cool but it's also a bit GPT-4o. He's predicting a vague crash that will happen someday and he's been predicting it for a while now (2024). It didn't happen yet. His value as a prophet of the AI bubble is going down by the day, but if it's the gospel you want and/or need to hear, by all means... But also, if you don't want to talk about this stuff, why comment about it?

> His value as a prophet of the AI bubble is going down by the day

Is it? I don't think this is really true.

For example he's spent some time talking about Oracle's relatively more dangerous exposure to OpenAI. Here he is back in April:

https://shows.acast.com/the-tech-report/episodes/how-openai-...

Here's S&P in July, downgrading Oracle specifically because of their exposure to risks from OpenAI.

https://www.spglobal.com/ratings/en/regulatory/article/-/vie...

> and he's been predicting it for a while now (2024)

Like I said elsewhere, the first accurate, detailed, correct predictions of the subprime crisis were made four years before it finally unfolded. There's likely at least one more round of funding to come for both OpenAI and Anthropic. The big systemic risk to the USA is if the bubble bursts in 2028, if you ask me; that is shaping up to be a restless year.

> but if it's the gospel you want and/or need to hear,

It's not, especially? I listen every now and then; I don't even use a podcast app as a rule, so I'm far from a subscriber or follower. I am more interested in what Cal Newport has to say. I am probably slightly less bearish about AI's long tail value than Zitron is, as it goes.

> But also, if you don't want to talk about this stuff, why comment about it?

I'm happy to talk about it. I just don't care enough to make predictions beyond the personal, because I'm just not that invested and other people are better at it than me.

To the extent that I think personal observations scale up to the rest of the world, I would say that leads me to think that on-device AI will very significantly derail optimistic consumer AI revenue predictions (in particular OpenAI's), that cloud-based agentic coding is closer to its useful limits than people so far understand, that local (on-prem or boutique-hosted if not necessarily on-device) LLMs will do more and more of that work, and that as a result the total addressable market for cloud AI in the next five years is closer to its apex than people in the industry think.

But I am not going to bother to make more specific predictions about the fates of the two big AI companies or the value of the market, because I am not invested in them or the celebrity OpenAI/Anthropic employee influencer aspect of it. I have no team (and I am trying to avoid the products as much as possible).

I have learned in my life not to have too much anxiety about things that won't affect me or I am not close enough to influence.

My limited interest in AI is in the potential offered by smaller models, and I personally think people in the tech industry are thinking in a shallow, FOMO way, obsessing about shiny "frontier" model baubles and what a handful of overpaid loudmouths think, when they should be spending that energy exploring running open weights models and open source tools.

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#102
post #38
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unironically sama is probably one of the most honest players here after all, he is burning money and if/when they have achieved AGI they will ask it in how to make money. its a different investor incentive story than trying to monetize into profitability right now that is indeed doomed to fail against china. Having no idea but a vision achieved is rrquired to be met to have those returns is actually the honest part h…

If Altman seriously believes his role is to create AGI then ask how to make the company profitable, he should get removed from his position of leadership asap. That’s crazy territory. It’s a grift, “AGI will save us” is the same as Musk’s “Mars colony”, it’s not supposed to ever happen, it’s supposed to be a goal post they ever move further

>It’s a grift, “AGI will save us” ... goal post...

It's not really like that, at least the fundamentals, not necessarily what Altman / Musk say.

The significant point is when AI/robots can do what we do without us and improve themselves even if humans disappear. That'll be a new era on Earth.

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#103
post #2

This is a bit of a doomer article, but quite honestly, 200 billion dollars a year on a 30 billion dollar a year business that is growing does not really sound as bad as the author makes it out to be, especially when that business consists of growth startups that are currently primarily concerned with completely automating your current revenue stream. The obvious way to recoup spend is to grow, rugpull by cranking up…

> The actual risk that the author does not even broach upon for investors... the thing that will actually torpedo this massive investment are the open source open weight chinese models that commoditize the entire endeavor. So much this. I've never touched the Chinese models (no particular reason) but it is having an impact as the frontier companies are pushing the price down as a defensive measure. Is this pulling fo…

> I've never touched the Chinese models (no particular reason) but it is having an impact as the frontier companies are pushing the price down as a defensive measure

I warn you that it is addictive.

I am using DS and MiMo on Pi.dev, and I don't see myself going back to OpenAI. They are criminally cheap in a way that I don't care to spend tokens. That leaves me space to experiment.

And in terms of capability, well... I use Sonnet and Opus at work (provided by my employer), and I see no difference in terms of what I can achieve. Well, besides Claude costing dozens of times more.

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#104
post #2

This is a bit of a doomer article, but quite honestly, 200 billion dollars a year on a 30 billion dollar a year business that is growing does not really sound as bad as the author makes it out to be, especially when that business consists of growth startups that are currently primarily concerned with completely automating your current revenue stream. The obvious way to recoup spend is to grow, rugpull by cranking up…

"And having two whale customers is not really out of the ordinary for any software company... it's just the scale that is staggering."

Does the Apple lawsuit over trade scret theft, including secrets concerning "metal-finishing finishing process", suggest that this "software company" may have plans to sell hardware

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#105

This guy has zero zip nada null AI background. He is a videogame reviewer and PR guy. He is a pure influencer feeding on the AI backlash he helped to create. He has been predicting a crash for how many years now? And while I can totally see Anthropic and OpenAI going through some things on the way to post-IPO FMV, those things do not include AI going away. It truly doesn't matter whether closed source Frontier lab mo…

> This guy has zero zip nada null AI background. He is a videogame reviewer and PR guy. He is a pure influencer feeding on the AI backlash he helped to create.

And yet, his arguments on the economic viability of AI are rock solid. He has many haters, and I am still to see a good counter argument to the numbers he goes through.

In fact, it is a shame that it falls to a "videogame reviewer and PR guy" with no tech or finance background to ask the questions that the press that reports on those companies should be asking.

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#106
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't need AI background to commentate on financials. Your post reads like a personal attack. His record talking about stock market doesn't matter either. There is about 0 information in anyone talking about what stock market is going to do. So his point is that big % of cloud revenue of Microsoft/Google/Amazon come from companies that: 1)are very unprofitable 2)need to raise staggering amount of capital to surv…

He doesn't have a finance background either and it's quite a job going through the 7482 words or whatever he's rattled off this week to analyse where he's gone wrong. His fundamental error I think, illustrated here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Gcx-6hJJw&t=196s is he thinks AI is just another tech product to hype rather than a comparable revolution to the industrial one.

This is the thing - I enjoy Zitron's work.

His criticism to AI has two angles.

The weak angle is on AI usability. I think he is wrong there; AI is clearly useful. Now, there is a discussion if it is multi-trillion dollar useful; I think it isn't, but it is useful nonetheless.

Now, there is a strong angle, which is the economic viability of AI, and the gargantuan amount of money being burned in what is a very risky bet. There, his arguments have proven so far rock solid.

The fact that you (as all his critics) chose to attack only the weak angle says something.

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#107
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So some value, but how much value? You clearly don't like the idea there are some businesses in the AI mix that will continue making money and/or diversify their divisions to cover for any losses they suffer during this hypothetical crash or I wouldn't be getting downvoted for it. META, for example, is running a gross margin of 80% or so right now. You really think they're in trouble? So really, after all of these co…

> You clearly don't like the idea there are some businesses in the AI mix that will continue making money and/or diversify their divisions to cover for any losses they suffer during this hypothetical crash or I wouldn't be getting downvoted for it. Me? I didn't downvote you for it and you are projecting a lot onto me without a sound basis. Either way, my predictions are all personal, because as someone with his own p…

[dead]

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#108
First thing a blog does is ask me to subscribe. Second thing it asks for is to subscribe to their premium blog. There are 7 separate requests on one page for my information to subscribe to their blog and newsletter.

The first 2 page lengths are 70% taken by subscription and premium callouts.

I didn't read the article. Was too distracted and annoyed.

Does this strategy actually work on people?

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#109

Several top level comments are attacks on the author’s credibility that do not engage the substance of the piece at all. I think the fundamental problem for people on all sides of the various debates surrounding AI is that “AI is a powerful, transformative technology” and “Anthropic and OpenAI are both doomed, and this poses risks to the broader economy” are compatible statements of fact. Just because you believe (1)…

I largely agree with this take. What gives me disquiet is that I thought more or less exactly this about Uber, and was proven comprehensively wrong. Despite burning money like a furnace on an app for taxis, it seems that anyone who invested privately made a handsome return, and they are at a profitable steady state. Is AI the same?

I don't know.

But the economics of it, at least from the outside, smell funny.

Some people are anxious that AI will take people's jobs. I'm not. I say this as a daily user. LLMs can be very useful, but they need to be carefully steered. It feels like a superpower the more I am an expert on the subject matter. What I am afraid of is that I suspect that once the dominoes start to fall, the economic downturn that it will spawn will be very, very painful.

Zitron is a bit histrionic, and this may put off people that don't like his style.

If you want a different, more balanced analysis, let me recommend you this: https://youtu.be/NufJ7g63KSY?is=Ojgb5pzrI-wg9wbo

Patrick Boyle's more recent video goes from a different angle and was very interesting for me, that have only a passing, layman's understanding of corporate accounting and investments.

Re: The AI Demand Bubble

#110

[off topic] I'm a writer too and I know people have to make their money but - Huge subscribe CTA at top - In-text subscribe CTA - scroll through that get pop up in your face full page subscribe CTA - close that and continue scrolling to yet another subscribe CTA was enough to make me close the page and ask my agent for a summary rather.

I, too, was hideously annoyed by this.
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