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EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

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Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#101

Post by vrganj »

brainwad wrote: post #96
vrganj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe US consumer internet companies should try following our laws? What do they expect if they come to our countries and break the law there? Of course they're gonna get fined?!

The argument is that the laws are so broad that the EU can always find a violation even when companies try to follow the law, and that they mostly target foreign companies. TBH I find this focus defensible: the big US companies are just so much bigger that it makes more sense to police them than insignificant local players. But it is a good cash cow.

The problem is that American companies try to follow the letter of the law, while going as much against the spirit of the law as possible. This is why they complain it's "too broad", because they can't avoid the spirit as they would like to.

Example here: Facebook changing their ToS to claim usage itself constitutes freely given, informed consent under GDPR. No it doesn't, you knew that was against the spirit, you did it anyways, you got fined.

This is fundamentally how the EU legal system works, you're expected to do what the law wants from you, not find some clever way to avoid what the law is for while ticking the right checkboxes.

I had a whole in-depth conversation on this not too long ago, check it out if you want more context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48707697

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#102

Post by esterna »

BrenBarn wrote: post #77
nolok wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine + obligation to fix, and daily fine until fixed, and higher fine if you do it again. I know that sounds like it comes from "it will never work", but that's how active directory, office file format, etc ... got opened, and in a case more similar to here that's how windows n and decoupling of media and internet component from windows internals happened. The issue is, yes, it takes time. Another issue, purely…

> It's fine + obligation to fix, and daily fine until fixed, and higher fine if you do it again. The important proviso is that the penalties need to (on some non-geological timescale) get high enough that the offender is no longer capable of operating . That could mean the fines reach $500 billion, or it could mean the company is barred from operating in the EU, or it could mean people get arrested and assets are sei…

NIS2 allows for the arrest of managers in case of cybersecurity incidents resulting from negligence. I think it's a step in the right direction, but we'll have to see how it plays out.

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#103

Post by kalleboo »

throwaw12 wrote: post #28

Expect threats by the Trump administration towards EU. US: our beloved tech companies (also funded our POTUS elections) tried to navigate the complex regulation landscape in the EU to innovate and accidentally stepped into very complex rules. But EU is fining them for being good boys. Shame on you EU, for not supporting criminals as much as US does

He already has: https://www.trumpstruth.org/statuses/40235

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#104

Post by esterna »

brador wrote: post #51
esterna wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the EU will someday figure out a patch for this "Deteriorate everyone's user experience in a way that is technically compliant and blame the EU" behavioural exploit...

The corrective force should be market competition, but Google is a monopoly not a monopoly with so many moats it might as well be a monopoly. They also buy up the competition before it gets a chance as is the way now.

Why should be? I think it is abundantly clear by now that market competition alone will not fix this. Though that does not stop people from claiming "Yes that failed and people suffered/died, but that was not real capitalism! If only we had a real free market, it would have been better!"

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#105

Post by Gud »

f6v wrote: post #47
dns_snek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you blaming the EU and not Google's malicious compliance? They could simply ask you which map provider you'd like to use.

> They could simply ask you which map provider you'd like to use. Yeah that's why EU isn't producing capable tech competitors. If other map services want my business they need to work on that. Instead, someone who built a search infrastructure is supposed to do a free promotion for competitors.

There are many amazing tech companies in Europe.

Siemens, Sulzer, ABB, Rolls Royce and so on.

Or perhaps you meant advertising companies like Google and Meta when you said "tech"?

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#106

Post by rsynnott »

tpm wrote: post #100
rsynnott wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s representative democracy, like most democracies. It is, granted, a particularly complex and confusing one. In practice, the average European has more agency in shaping EU law than the average American does in shaping US law; the US’s electoral system means that, realistically, on a federal level, most peoples’ votes simply do not matter (two party FPTP system, with most seats being safe). The EU parliament is at…

France does have a directly elected head of state (I wouldn't want to emulate that either, though their system is not purely presidential), as does South Korea, Mexico, Turkey and many other countries really.

I mean, look, again, Turkey? South Korea? You’re not really selling it.

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#107

Post by beAbU »

plantain wrote: post #10

It drives me insane when in Europe the link between Google Search and Google Maps is broken and I often have to copy paste an address between the two. Thanks EU, what if I like Google's integrations?

When I search for a place on google, and I click on the 'directions' button, I'm taken to maps, ready start navigation. I'm in Ireland.

What's your experience?

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#108

Post by TheHalc »

spwa4 wrote: post #78
stymaar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European Commission is way too pro-business for that, even when the said businesses are parasitic actors who don't even pay taxes in the EU.

Plus that just isn't how governments work. Governments work by imposing costs on others. They do not build.

"What have the Romans ever done for us?"

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#109

Post by bko »

piyuv wrote: post #89
bko wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google measures latency at microseconds.100 ms ≈ 0.2% fewer searches. Google tracks this very closely and invests a lot as that's the operational life blood of the company. You can make more money by simply making search easier. To save "it's easy" and Google chooses to nuke their own products for... I don't know what, stick it the European regulators, strikes me as incorrect. It's because it's incredibly hard to nav…

Google also makes money by making search worse. https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

[flagged]

Re: EU Fines Google $1.02B for Favoring Its Own Services

#110

Post by tpm »

rsynnott wrote: post #106
tpm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France does have a directly elected head of state (I wouldn't want to emulate that either, though their system is not purely presidential), as does South Korea, Mexico, Turkey and many other countries really.

I mean, look, again, Turkey? South Korea? You’re not really selling it.

" it’s _largely_ a thing in the Americas and Africa" " In terms of big countries with a true presidential system, you’re really talking the US, Russia, Brazil, Nigeria and Indonesia."

These are factual inaccuracies.

South Korea is a functioning democracy. They tend to jail their ex-presidents quite often, but then only those that do deserve it, which is more than we can say about a few western democracies which are very lenient about the criminality of politicians. Ah yes and the president is limited to serving one term.

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