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Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

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101–103 of 103 posts

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention ammonia isn't the friendliest of chemicals and doesn't exactly beg for decentralized logistics. I think, projects like these grew out of dunkelflaute moral panic regarding renewable energy. Meanwhile grid battery storage has becomes cheap enough to completely obliterate this concern. And quite frankly, fertilizer needs in agriculture should be addressed by ecological means anyway. If we want to lower t…

Here in Germany we have up to three months of almost zero solar production in winter due to foggy conditions (measured from my own solar inverter). It is not feasible to store summer electricity until winter in batteries. Batteries have self-discharge and would be hilariously expensive per KWh if they only cycle once a year. Chemical storage is probably the way to go here at least, and hydrogen can be used for many o…

Right, in winter there is less sun. However, there still is some sunlight and in winter you also still got wind energy. Maybe more wind, especially off-shore. Not to mention geothermal and water energy.

In any case, battery storage has been shown to be economically feasible already and are as of now operating at scale. And battery tech is only getting better. The worries about grid stability are therefore unwarranted. If you can manage the up and down of wind and solar, you don't need gas energy to stabilize the grid, you got better bad options and the seasonal variation becomes highly predictable. And of course you could e.g. reserve water potential energy generation for winter times.

And as I said, we also need to cut down our energy consumption. Building data centers to undress celebrities is not the direction of survival.

Hydrogen generation, storage, logistics and electricity conversion are all very lossy. Again battery/solar/wind tech is already there and is only getting better. We should absolutely not use hydrogen for anything, where direct electrification/battery storage is possible. We critically need it for things like steel production, but that's a special use case, where it should be made on-site. Let's be real, the only reason anyone in Germany is pushing for hydrogen is because the German "industry" historically sabotaged local solar and storage tech and now try to salvage their obsolete combustion tech. Hydrogen has a lobby, but no future. For similar reasons Russia and USA are putting propaganda efforts into climate denial: China owns battery and solar tech, China owns the energy future. It's sad, but true. There is no one to blame but those legacy economies being all inert, fat and complacent - they got a million chances to win this slow, slow race, which has been advertised a century ago.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is true, but it’s not my forte. Pure ammonia is toxic to animals. At normal outdoor temperatures it also only becomes a liquid at ~100 PSI (it’s like 150 at 80F). The boiling point at STP is like -27F. I’m doubtful running a power transmission line to these places is harder than maintaining pipes that transport either a toxic gas, or a toxic pressurized liquid. If you could turn it into ammonium ni…

I didn't realize this previously but straight anhydrous ammonia can be used directly in the field as a fertilizer - specialized trucks just inject it directly into the soil where it dissolves in soil moisture. Yes, it needs to be stored as a "toxic pressurized liquid" in steel tanks, but we store and use lots of toxic pressurized liquids all the time. Lots of people run all their energy needs off propane tanks, after…

I think bacteria will convert it to ammonia nitrate, but I could be wrong. I do some hydro and the guidance is not to do it with hydro because the bacteria don’t grow as well so they won’t convert it into something plants can eat.

> we store and use lots of toxic pressurized liquids all the time. Lots of people run all their energy needs off propane tanks, after all.

That’s stored at rest, not being pumped through pipes. We could probably store it locally and send people to collect it, that might be cheaper than power lines.

I would be surprised if maintaining pipes to transport pressurized liquid or gas was cheaper than power lines. Power lines aren’t free, but super cheap relative to pipes that can leak everywhere.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you have 1,000 separate ammonia generation systems that need upkeep, repairs, etc. It is doing chemical reactions under pressure to produce presumably ammonium nitrate which is explosive. The engineers you would need probably aren’t cheap, and storing large quantities of ammonium nitrate all year is sort of sketchy. Timothy McVeigh took out an entire federal building with about 4800 pounds of the stuff mixed wit…

I don’t know the exact process but I don’t think ammonium nitrate actually gets involved. The system I was looking at (Green Lightning) actually doesn’t make ammonia but rather liquid nitrogen fertilizer Plasma to take N2 + O2 -> NO2 and NO gas The NO and NO2 are dissolved in water to become HNO2 and HNO3, which then become NO2- and NO3- ions in the water. It’s a low pH solution which stabilizes it and then you dilut…

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