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My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

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Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#101

Post by RiverStone »

foco_tubi wrote: post #67
anonymousiam wrote: post #57

This article makes a good case for the abolition of health insurance. If everybody had to pay for medical care, medical care would need to be affordable to survive. It's hard for me to believe that a doctor couldn't afford medical care for her husband. She just couldn't get outside of the box and consider that the treatment was more important than the cost.

> It's hard for me to believe that a doctor couldn't afford medical care for her husband Why's that? Between mortgage, repaying education debt, supporting children, recovering from a husband's failed business venture...what is hard to believe about having trouble paying for another expense, especially after you've been reassured that the expense would be at least partially recompensated and that turns out to not be t…

At a high income level, you should have more buffer for life’s events if you’ve made good decisions in your life. Generally speaking.

For example, that mortgage, did you stretch the very limit of your income or did you buy something reasonable?

Nobody forced you to buy a house, you could also rent or commute longer.

I lived in a crappy rental for five years and commuted and was able to fully pay off my student loans at the beginning of my career. As an example

Education debt can be put on forbearance or deferment under many life circumstances.

Given high income level, you also have many options available to you like personal loans.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#102

Post by rayiner »

starkparker wrote: post #95
rayiner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's wild how differently the press release you linked to frames that. > WASHINGTON, D.C. – Nearly half (49%) of cancer patients and survivors report being burdened by medical debt alongside some (13%) who report expecting to incur medical debt as part of their treatment plan, according to a new Survivor Views survey by the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network (ACS CAN). Interestingly, nearly all (98%) were…

Yes, facts are more important than framing.

Look how many people in this thread are thinking about avoiding health insurance based on the premise that you’ll be financially wiped out by a catastrophic event even if you have insurance. That’s what happens when you put framing over facts. It’s important for people to understand the facts so they can make good decisions.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#103

Post by rayiner »

foco_tubi wrote: post #96
rayiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bad result is not evidence that a system failed or did anything wrong. To show a problem with the system, you need to show, for example, that other systems do things differently in a way that would have avoided what happened here.

In what world is a "bad result" not recognized as a problem?

Bad things happen all the time even when it’s not the fault of any person or system.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#104

Post by rayiner »

goda90 wrote: post #82
rayiner wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a country where that's the goal. Every other developed country has a goal that's something like: "provide the best outcomes for the population as a whole, at a cost the public is willing to pay."

We should make it the goal as a species. We have the resources and technology. We decide to be limited by economics.

No, economics is just how we describe resource limits and tradeoffs in a methodical way.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#105

Post by foco_tubi »

rayiner wrote: post #103
foco_tubi wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is a "bad result" not recognized as a problem?

Bad things happen all the time even when it’s not the fault of any person or system.

Irrelevant to this specific context as well as your initial claim

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#106

Post by rayiner »

ceejayoz wrote: post #47
rayiner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To understand how doctor's recommendations for in-patient care are treated in the health system of another developed country?

Why do you trust Gemini to do that?

Because LLMs are pretty good at summarizing facts from publicly available sources.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#107

Post by ButlerianJihad »

> I am an emergency physician living in the U.S., and we had one of the top commercial health insurance plans.

You see, dear, your critical error was in believing that psychiatry is “medicine”, and that mental health treatment is “health care”.

Oh for sure, they present you “doctors” and “nurses” with the same credentials, wearing white lab coats, ties, scrubs, and even stethoscopes. They can prescribe “drugs” and run “hospitals”.

From the outside, they are indistinguishable from physicians who treat the physical body, but it is all a satiric cosplay. It is done this way for reasons, chiefly not to scare people too much.

Mental health should be considered more of the “Pre-Crime Division” or Department of Corrections For Stuff That’s Not Your Fault.

Don’t ever believe they’re in “Health Care”. This is a fatal category error.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#108

Post by foco_tubi »

RiverStone wrote: post #101
foco_tubi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard for me to believe that a doctor couldn't afford medical care for her husband Why's that? Between mortgage, repaying education debt, supporting children, recovering from a husband's failed business venture...what is hard to believe about having trouble paying for another expense, especially after you've been reassured that the expense would be at least partially recompensated and that turns out to not be t…

At a high income level, you should have more buffer for life’s events if you’ve made good decisions in your life. Generally speaking. For example, that mortgage, did you stretch the very limit of your income or did you buy something reasonable? Nobody forced you to buy a house, you could also rent or commute longer. I lived in a crappy rental for five years and commuted and was able to fully pay off my student loans…

Without assuming the specifics as you do, it’s possible and entirely believable that any buffer was wiped out by the husband’s business. Access to credit could also be affected.

As long as we’re throwing anecdotes, access to forbearance and deferment is shaky at best. I’ve personally had inconsistent success across various income levels.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#109

Post by [deleted] »

az226 wrote: post #90
pyuser583 wrote: post #48

I’ve been through this situation with family members. I understand the frustration and agony. I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.” In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay. I’m not aware of any country that makes such a thing available on short notice like this. I also understand th…

What gets me is that they probably could afford it out of pocket but didn’t want to deplete savings. For a clear case like this, an insurance denial shouldn’t even be shared with the suicidal patient, their spouse should shield them from that and just pay from their checking account. The life of your spouse is worth more than a few more dollars in retirement.

[deleted]

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#110

Post by Lalabadie »

mvdtnz wrote: post #44

Anyone who moans about the state of healthcare in USA should be required to reveal their voting habits. Collectively, America gets the healthcare system it desires, and deserves.

I've said a similar sentence on here in the past, but there's a large anti-tax sentiment in the US because their government is one of the most inefficient per dollar.

People are against paying for nothing, not against paying for services. There's just no confidence that the amount of services rendered can change away from "as little as they can get away with", so there's no enthusiasm for paying at all.

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