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Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

reuters.com

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Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#101

Post by Qem »

HeavyStorm wrote: post #62
cognitiveinline wrote: post #3

Maybe to spark curious conversation, when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these? It does seem like UN is unable to really make a dent here.

If the latest Gaza war taught us anything, is that UN is powerless. And, unfortunately, it is the highest entity that could apply leverage here, so... Not much we can do. In the long term I hope other nations realize they are very vulnerable and begin to invest more in defense, but that escalation can have other downsides.

> highest entity that could apply leverage

What is the lowest entity that can apply leverage? Regardless of what US or UN does or doesn't, you can start boycotting today.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#102

Post by xg15 »

saturn8601 wrote: post #96
cognitiveinline wrote: post #3

Maybe to spark curious conversation, when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these? It does seem like UN is unable to really make a dent here.

We kinda went through this with South Africa. The only thing saving Israel is the US protection and the nukes. US protection can change. Nukes are harder. South Africa successfully utilized "strategic ambiguity". They never explicitly acknowledged they had the weapons, while making sure world leaders knew they were a credible threat. during South Africa's border wars (specifically against the Cubans in Angola), there…

Not sure if it used to be the case with South Africa too, but I'm baffled how much ideological support Israel still has, in various population groups. There are at least two religious groups who seem to view it as integral part of a divine plan that trumps all other considerations. ("mainstream" Orthodox Jews and Evangelical Christians)

Then there various secular narratives around the Jewish homeland, the rebirth (and Germany's redemption) after the Holocaust etc.

For western politicians, it seems far easier to chime in to the dehumanization of Palestinians and either paint the daily suffering there as "tragic but necessary", make fun of it or dismiss it completely - than to object to those stories.

This seems to work on a different layer than geopolitics, so I have doubts that a shift in geopolitics alone would change this. (I may be wrong)

Though maybe the changed perception of Israel after the Gaza war might change it.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#103

Post by mech998877 »

xg15 wrote: post #100
cognitiveinline wrote: post #3

Maybe to spark curious conversation, when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these? It does seem like UN is unable to really make a dent here.

I think this is a good argument why a singular world power is actually a bad thing - because no matter how much it will promote itself as the "good guys" (and of course it will), at the end of the day, it will push through its own interests by that dominance - whereas if power is more evenly distributed, countries might be more willing to agree to common, formalized rules and a "neutral" body to evaluate them. I thin…

History has shown that having a multitude of roughly-equal competing powers results in more per-capita death from war than when there is 1 or two dominant nations. The 1800's and early 1900's were bloody. Post WWII has had less death from war.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#104

Post by xg15 »

mech998877 wrote: post #103
xg15 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a good argument why a singular world power is actually a bad thing - because no matter how much it will promote itself as the "good guys" (and of course it will), at the end of the day, it will push through its own interests by that dominance - whereas if power is more evenly distributed, countries might be more willing to agree to common, formalized rules and a "neutral" body to evaluate them. I thin…

History has shown that having a multitude of roughly-equal competing powers results in more per-capita death from war than when there is 1 or two dominant nations. The 1800's and early 1900's were bloody. Post WWII has had less death from war.

True, though post-WWII was not a single power either until the 90s. We've had several decades of Cold War in which there were at least two great powers.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#105

Post by pvaldes »

Were are the UN sanctions on Israel? Still none? UN can go f*k themselves then.

Needing so many years to get the courage to say the world genocide, where everybody had seen for years Israel turning little children into little flesh chunks, slowly unfurl in horrid technicolor in world TV, is just another part of the problem. UN is useless.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#106

Post by the_origami_fox »

xg15 wrote: post #102
saturn8601 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We kinda went through this with South Africa. The only thing saving Israel is the US protection and the nukes. US protection can change. Nukes are harder. South Africa successfully utilized "strategic ambiguity". They never explicitly acknowledged they had the weapons, while making sure world leaders knew they were a credible threat. during South Africa's border wars (specifically against the Cubans in Angola), there…

Not sure if it used to be the case with South Africa too, but I'm baffled how much ideological support Israel still has, in various population groups. There are at least two religious groups who seem to view it as integral part of a divine plan that trumps all other considerations. ("mainstream" Orthodox Jews and Evangelical Christians) Then there various secular narratives around the Jewish homeland, the rebirth (an…

* * *

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#107

Post by throw478322 »

xg15 wrote: post #102
saturn8601 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We kinda went through this with South Africa. The only thing saving Israel is the US protection and the nukes. US protection can change. Nukes are harder. South Africa successfully utilized "strategic ambiguity". They never explicitly acknowledged they had the weapons, while making sure world leaders knew they were a credible threat. during South Africa's border wars (specifically against the Cubans in Angola), there…

Not sure if it used to be the case with South Africa too, but I'm baffled how much ideological support Israel still has, in various population groups. There are at least two religious groups who seem to view it as integral part of a divine plan that trumps all other considerations. ("mainstream" Orthodox Jews and Evangelical Christians) Then there various secular narratives around the Jewish homeland, the rebirth (an…

You are missing the very massive religious and ideological groups who are on the other side and see in the destruction of Israel a divine plan or a fulfilment of some secular ideal.

This blinkered view will reasonably leave you baffled and with a distorted world model, and a perception that people are stupid when they are actually seeing the bigger picture.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#108

Post by amanaplanacanal »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #30
cognitiveinline wrote: post #3

Maybe to spark curious conversation, when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these? It does seem like UN is unable to really make a dent here.

The UN is stuck in 1945. The UNSC needs to throw out the UK, France, and bring in Brazil, India, South Africa and Germany. And this veto nonsense needs to go away.

The security council was built around the nuclear powers at the time. I guess there are two ways to look at it:

1: The new nuclear powers should be included, I guess including N Korea, India, and Pakistan. And possibly Israel, if they admit to having them.

2: Rethink the whole thing. Are nukes really as important as everybody thought they were after WWII? If not, what should we look at to decide who to include?

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#110

Post by amanaplanacanal »

thrance wrote: post #84
jalapenoj wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully Israel will have lost American support in a generation or so, who cares what happens to them after that.

Well, you should still care. They have nukes and have promised to use them were Tel Aviv to fall.

I suspect that without American support, they would have to do quite a bit to change their behavior. They probably can't afford the current level of conflict on their own. It would force them to negotiate with their neighbors.
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