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Japanese symbols that speak without words

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Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#101

Post by moondowner »

simonask wrote: post #81
hunter2_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The si…

Where I am, I was taught that activating the turn signals means "I have made a decision to change lanes", so the appropriate reaction from surrounding traffic is to either safely accommodate that choice, or indicate using the horn and/or lights that the decision is unsafe and must be cancelled. I'm in Scandinavia, and it feels like surrounding regions have similar conventions.

That's the case in Europe in general, yes.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#102

Post by aa-jv »

1-6 wrote: post #19

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

Maybe whats special about them is that in spite of their lack of beauty they have nevertheless become widely adopted by a society very keyed toward symbolic representation, and in that context whether or not you find them beautiful is irrelevant to the broader discussion, which is that symbols are social and only perpetuate because the culture which originates them finds them aesthetically appealing, useful, and necessary to the function of that culture.

>Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

Yes? No? Whats your point? This is an interesting article about some beautiful cultural symbols. What is so wrong with you that you feel you have to degrade it?

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#103

Post by seszett »

svachalek wrote: post #10
netsharc wrote: post #3

The logo expressing "Limited Express" is very unspecific, imagine if buses with the Mercedes star cost extra and didn't stop at every stop. Interesting that a lot of US road signs have words on them: https://ygraph.com/graphs/roadsigns-20120316T030941-ekrruua.... , or are obvious, whereas in Europe drivers need to learn what they mean: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh... For example the yi…

The yield triangle is super common here (California and everywhere else I've been in the US). It's even on your image. No parking is usually a red curb or striped out area, which is different but also nonverbal. The complication is that many places have a EULA on parking spots that reads something like "No parking, 9-5pm, except on Tuesdays and full moons, or in a yellow vehicle, or by written agreement with a minimu…

> "No parking, 9-5pm, except on Tuesdays and full moons, or in a yellow vehicle, or by written agreement with a minimum of two signatures not including Bob". Good luck putting that in an icon.

I have also noticed that parking rules are usually much simpler in the EU than in the US, and maybe the format just makes it cumbersome enough to spell out abstruse rules that in the end, the rules just have to stay simple enough.

It's not totally true though because lately many cities in France have enacted complicated parking rules that are explained nowhere except on a buried page on their website that might or might not be up to date. But that's just because modern societies are straying further and further away from the rule of law with every passing day, and there is nothing that citizens can do about it.

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#104

Post by robocat »

ggm wrote: post #15
robocat wrote: post #2

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to b…

Also in the UK and Aus. It's bizarre that a sign saying "I'm learning, be kind" encourages some people to monster you, follow you swearing, generally hassle you. (33 years ago, still in my memory) It's as if they think it means HTFU and then go to hazing.

> HTFU

I'm guessing "Harden The Fuck Up"

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#105

Post by walthamstow »

wetwater wrote: post #53

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

The most obvious British example is pub boards. Everyone was illiterate so they only knew pubs by the image on the board, e.g. Rose & Crown

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#108

Post by billyoyo »

aa-jv wrote: post #99
wetwater wrote: post #53

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

This is a classic case of "open misanthropy". People can love the Japanese for their unique characteristics and they can love the Japanese for the things they appropriated from other cultures. Just like the British. Fact is though, in many ways, Japanese culture is a lot more caring, considerate and kind than the British. >I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational cl…

This seems rather blatantly anti-british? Feels like you're taking your point too far the other way.

How exactly is Britain not a country good at designing things for longevity? It is probably amongst the countries in the world that goes to the most effort to protect its architectural history, and also has some world class modern design schools.

The government also has a unified design system that makes using government digital services really easy.

why is critiquing Japanese design "open misanthropy" but you're more than happy to critique British design?

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#109

Post by latexr »

aa-jv wrote: post #100
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just the trope of the "wise and mystical oriental"

Hey, I mean this seriously: you might be a racist misanthrope.

Those terms seem incompatible. Either you’re a racist and hate certain slices of humanity or you’re a misanthrope and hate all of it. Doesn’t make much sense to hate all and part of it. What exactly did you mean?

Re: Japanese symbols that speak without words

#110

Post by pegasus »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #93
pegasus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all you see there is something "cool", you're missing the more rewarding depths. These symbols speak of a society which was at the other extreme end to the fragmentation, atomization, and attention span erosion we are experiencing today. This allowed them to elevate esthetics to a point we couldn't afford to today. I'm thinking here mainly of those ancient Mon[1] symbols – though something of their spirit lives on…

This is just the trope of the "wise and mystical oriental"

Plenty of these tropes have some truth behind them, even if that truth often gets flattened into a caricature of itself in popular imagination. Then you get the anticaricature caricature (reverse snobbery) where people knee-jerk label everything that rhymes with that trope as a caricature, convinced that's enough to dismiss an argument.

Btw. medieval Europe, or classical Greece, just to give two non-Eastern examples, also had many of the characteristics I mentioned in my comment: a strong communal spirit and shared symbolic life which connects one to a coherent and poetic view of the world. But pointing out ways cultures very different from ours might have been superior in some senses to ours is one of the most triggering moves, especially on a techie-oriented forum like this one.

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