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NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

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Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#101
post #78
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you mean like funding science? Dumbass.

This is funding science. Literally just reallocating funding from one part of the pipeline to another.

You have to fund both ends of the pipeline or it dries up. You can't just fund the money end and expect money to pour out forever.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like typical establishment / reactionary push-back. NSF is spinning up Focused Research Organizations, which are very effective ways of getting basic research done that wouldn't otherwise be funded, and to do so in a way that allows for commercial spin-offs. That's not a handout.

The whole point of an FRO is to have less oversight than a traditional government grant or contract.

That is the point, but not the purpose. Traditional funding mechanisms leave large gaps across whole research areas. A more traditional government grant is small and focused, and only makes sense within the context of an ongoing research effort, e.g. in a university. That's great and fine, except that there are whole categories of things that existing labs and agencies do not do, yet are still too close to basic science for an industrial research lab to pick up.

For example, let's say you want to make a fundamentally different kind of microscope, or nano-fabrication lab. Something that requires many millions of $$ to setup, and further tens of millions to operate. That's too much for an SBIR grant, too expensive for industry to do on a lark. An FRO could setup the lab and run it for 5-7 years, accomplishing major research goals while proving out the concept. But it'll never get done on a spoon-fed sequence of small grants.

So you grant an organization $50M/yr to do this work, with broad freedoms to spend that money how they see fit, so long as progress is made towards the research goals. That's an FRO. Yes, technically that is a government grant with less regulatory oversight. But it's not libertarian philosophy that drives that outcome, so much as regulatory oversight is not setup to fund such efforts in the first place.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that. So, like...Thomas Massie and Rand Paul? There were only four republicans in the House and four in the Senate to vote to limit war powers, and I don't think you could claim Murkowski or Collins are isolationists. Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and me…

> Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way? That’s how I understood it, yes. So unhappy that they’ll write him in for a third term.

In our system we generally have the choice between two candidates. You can be "very unhappy" with one but still think he is a better option than the other one.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#105
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quantum computers, fusion, synthetic bio, space exploration, asteroid mining Poster children for tech with no realistic commercial prospects. Projects in these fields have been pipe dreams for decades. Where are any commercial products in the areas of fusion reactors? Quantum computers? Asteroid mining operations? If private investors want to fund this stuff, fine. As long as they don't come seeking bailouts later.

Not only that, but fusion itself is absolutely not what a tech venture capitalist wants to fund. The research horizon for fusion power is in the multiple decades. You're never going to find an investor that says "Yeah, I'll give you enough money to build a fusion reactor and do research for 20+ years in the hopes that you get something workable" Fusion is literally still in the pure science stage that OP was telling…

This is out of date. There are now a number of fusion energy startups, including Helion which has raised $1B from investors, mostly Silicon Valley ones you've heard of. It's not yet proven that the tech will work, but it is proven that investors are willing to fund it.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way? That’s how I understood it, yes. So unhappy that they’ll write him in for a third term.

In our system we generally have the choice between two candidates. You can be "very unhappy" with one but still think he is a better option than the other one.

I think you successfully dodged the joke.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#107
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not even. At least in the domain I work in, there is virtually no interest of engaging with these NSF programs. Regardless of what's put in writing in the calls for applicants, there's still a significant prejudice that NSF - by being a part of the government - will be slow and ineffective at administering awards, and therefore it's a waste of time for any agile, fast-moving company. On the flip-side, my academic…

We have worked with many (NSF funded) research centers over the past decade. It (accidentally) became our speciality. If you know research centers that are looking for software dev firms that understand how to work with NSF funded grants and research centers, I’d love to connect.

Can you share more about who you are and what your firm does?

Apologies if this interpretation is off-base, but I don't think it's a good thing that there is a nascent cottage industry of "software dev firms" that are elbowing their way into these grants. That is another glaring warning sign that what the NSF is doing right now is grossly inconsistent with what it is _supposed_ to be doing.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#108
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with a bare understanding of the history of science would understand how bad of an assumption that is. You specifically have the much harder problem of explaining how you intend to maintain tech dominance with a Cultural Revolution and also without any foreigners or any of the many various groups of citizens you find personally undesirable.

I’m pretty sure we can maintain technological dominance with the O-visa and E-visa programs.

Well, good luck making those numbers work out. I think I’ll stick to studying Mandarin.

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#109
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have worked with many (NSF funded) research centers over the past decade. It (accidentally) became our speciality. If you know research centers that are looking for software dev firms that understand how to work with NSF funded grants and research centers, I’d love to connect.

Can you share more about who you are and what your firm does? Apologies if this interpretation is off-base, but I don't think it's a good thing that there is a nascent cottage industry of "software dev firms" that are elbowing their way into these grants. That is another glaring warning sign that what the NSF is doing right now is grossly inconsistent with what it is _supposed_ to be doing.

Oh not at all. To be totally clear what we do is build websites for research centers, help write articles about their research and run their newsletters. We aren’t claiming (or trying) to do any research or take any research funds.

But occasionally those research centers have needed help on the cloud side setting up servers to do their research. So we’ve supported them there, but again mainly in an IT/programming capacity.

We aren’t competing for grants. We leave that to the scientists. :-)

Our company is KZN Consulting (kznconsulting.com) and our product is SimplyScholar.com

Re: NSF slashes research programs to support new tech initiative, insiders say

#110
This a a step away from university-driven research towards giving money to industry. FWIW, NSF's prior industry investment has rarely yield any true impact. Most successful startups spun from universities directly go for VC fund, esp. in CS.
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