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Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

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101–110 of 136 posts

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#101
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a goddamn banana car. This guy’s banana car is apparently legal, well constructed, and registered properly, but yes, the presence of a hand made banana car is reasonable suspicion that the car may not be up to snuff, road legal, or safe to operate around others.

That's a common misconception about what "reasonable suspicion" means. "Reasonable suspicion of a crime " is an objective legal standard that doesn't mean the same thing as "they look suspicious" or the situation itself is "suspicious" -- it means that the officer thinks that a specific articulable crime has, is, or is about to occur. They don't have to be 100% sure, and they don't even have to be correct about what…

Interesting, I see the distinction. That said, I’m genuinely curious here (and, I’m not defending police overreach - you can browse my comments if you’re worried I’ve got any love for authoritarians) - let’s take as a given that we’ve got a societal interest in automobiles meeting safety standards, and let’s take as a given that we’ve nominated the police as the body designated to ensure that vehicles being operated on the road meet these safety standards (or at least, we’ve designated them as the on-the-ground eyes for seeking out vehicles that don’t). Let’s also assume that some of those safety standards are not immediately visible from the outside - eg, it’s difficult to tell at a glance if the frame of the banana car is a well-constructed piece of welded steel or a shopping cart.

A cop sees what is clearly a hand-made banana car driving past them in the other direction on the road. What do you feel like are the appropriate actions for that cop to take in those circumstances, with just the facts available to them at hand?

I’m not arguing that the cops we have do not regularly and aggressively abuse their power and violate the social contract, but I’m struggling to see how we would want a cop to behave in an ideal world in this circumstance that isn’t “pull over the banana car and make sure it’s safe.” From the sound of it, they’re not ticketing the banana car, they obviously haven’t impounded it, and knock wood, they haven’t shot the driver yet, but what would your expectation be for them in that situation?

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#102
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unusual" behavior should not be justification for any police interaction. Society doesn't benefit from policing "Weird".

Society (broadly) disagrees, and even trivial examples would have you agreeing with them if you thought it through. If a cop saw someone hiding in your bushes at 2am - stop and check it out, or nah?

Society broadly agrees, enough that it's illegal in the US to stop someone just for "unusual behavior." You have to have an actual concrete reason to suspect someone of a crime. Not that police always follow the law on this.

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a car that was pulled over dozens of times so the cops could take pics with it. Most of the time it was cool. Two times pissed me off: one time a cop had just pulled me over on the highway for a pic, okay cool, I pull back onto the highway and went maybe a mile before I was pulled over a second time by his buddy. Other time I was just rolling into LA for a comic con, it was 3am and I'd been driving for about 14…

That's an awesome story! deserves to be more than a hacker news comment with imgur links

Here's where the barriers came down and we panicked a little bit as we couldn't figure out how to get them back up :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo1DvKzRJ4

The city actually gave us permission for this and promised us there "probably" wasn't any trains using the track that day.

This was actually the first time we'd ever tried to fit the train wheels, we didn't realise they wouldn't fit over the brakes, so we had to do some disassembly to make them fit :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLU4RPWjTY8

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a common misconception about what "reasonable suspicion" means. "Reasonable suspicion of a crime " is an objective legal standard that doesn't mean the same thing as "they look suspicious" or the situation itself is "suspicious" -- it means that the officer thinks that a specific articulable crime has, is, or is about to occur. They don't have to be 100% sure, and they don't even have to be correct about what…

Interesting, I see the distinction. That said, I’m genuinely curious here (and, I’m not defending police overreach - you can browse my comments if you’re worried I’ve got any love for authoritarians) - let’s take as a given that we’ve got a societal interest in automobiles meeting safety standards, and let’s take as a given that we’ve nominated the police as the body designated to ensure that vehicles being operated…

> let’s take as a given that we’ve got a societal interest in automobiles meeting safety standards, and let’s take as a given that we’ve nominated the police as the body designated to ensure that vehicles being operated on the road meet these safety standards

Broadly, I agree. But there are two very distinct groups of laws that you're groping together here:

Firstly, there's federal law, which is primarily responsible for what we think a modern safe vehicle is: crash testing, airbags, backup cameras, tire pressure monitoring, antilock brakes, stability control, etc. These laws primarily apply only to new vehicle manufacturers, enter enforced against those manufactured by the federal government.

Second, there's state law. Basically, all traffic laws are under state purview, and enforcement. The safety equipment required under state law is generally extremely basic. In most states you can qualify with as little as: DOT rated tires with tread, at least two mirrors, turn signals, seat belt, headlights, tail lights, horn, a front windshield, and a functioning wiper. These are the laws that traffic police enforce.

> Let’s also assume that some of those safety standards are not immediately visible from the outside - eg, it’s difficult to tell at a glance if the frame of the banana car is a well-constructed piece of welded steel or a shopping cart.

Because state vehicle safety law is generally very basic, it usually is possible to tell from the outside whether equipment requirements are met.

Also, shopping carts are made out of welded steel. And besides, it is entirely legal to use wood in the construction of a vehicle. State law typically does not prescribe the types of materials used beyond some extreme generalities in their performance (e.g. visibility through windows, structures physically attached as opposed to being loose). Generally, state law only cares about operational safety, they don't really regulate design safety. Horrible unsafe designs that would fail a crash test are only federally illegal for manufacturers to make and sell to people.

But let's entertain your scenario for a second. Let's say that there is something about a vehicle that fails safety standards that isn't visible... legally you there's no way to pull the vehicle over for a reason that you don't know of... because you have to know of a reason to justify the stop to begin with -- you'd have to find some other reason.

Ideally, the way you'd enforces vehicle safety for these kinds of scenarios, and the way that the rest of the world handles it -- is to require vehicles to be inspected. But only 15 states have chosen to require periodic passenger vehicle inspections.

> A cop sees what is clearly a hand-made banana car driving past them in the other direction on the road. What do you feel like are the appropriate actions for that cop to take in those circumstances, with just the facts available to them at hand?

They should do everything that their state law enables them to do, including:

* visually confirming the existence of required equipment: lamps, windscreen, signals, road tires, etc.

* confirming the display of any credentials required by their state: inspections stickers (if applicable), registration stickers (if applicable), license plate (believe it or not... if applicable), etc.

... and if they don't meet these requirements, or they break other rules of traffic operation, initiate a stop and investigate further.

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I see the distinction. That said, I’m genuinely curious here (and, I’m not defending police overreach - you can browse my comments if you’re worried I’ve got any love for authoritarians) - let’s take as a given that we’ve got a societal interest in automobiles meeting safety standards, and let’s take as a given that we’ve nominated the police as the body designated to ensure that vehicles being operated…

> let’s take as a given that we’ve got a societal interest in automobiles meeting safety standards, and let’s take as a given that we’ve nominated the police as the body designated to ensure that vehicles being operated on the road meet these safety standards Broadly, I agree. But there are two very distinct groups of laws that you're groping together here: Firstly, there's federal law, which is primarily responsible…

That all makes sense, I appreciate the engagement. I should've figured that the state-level vs federal-level gaps where where all the dragons would live here, and I don't live in a rural area, but I've spent enough time in them that I should've guessed how narrow those state-level standards actually wind up being. I get the reason for all of that, but as someone who lives in a city with many other cars around on a regular basis, I do get nervous about their ability to interoperate safely with the rest of us.

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#107
post #79

Wow has HN ever taken a turn. What would have once been a conversation about the vehicle has turned into non stop police hatred. Good job - you’ve all become parrots! It’s especially funny because the owner of the vehicle has zero problems and none of you have evidence of abuse of power but oh no, you’ve all made up your minds and ACAB. It’s embarrassing you have all decided to stop thinking.

If the article is to be believed he was pulled over multiple times just so they could take a photo or make a joke. That’s abuse of power even if the victim is fine with it.

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#108
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society (broadly) disagrees, and even trivial examples would have you agreeing with them if you thought it through. If a cop saw someone hiding in your bushes at 2am - stop and check it out, or nah?

Society broadly agrees, enough that it's illegal in the US to stop someone just for "unusual behavior." You have to have an actual concrete reason to suspect someone of a crime. Not that police always follow the law on this.

Not really, in the way you are using it.

Only in specific edge cases and definitions, which I’m guessing you don’t know. And calling it ‘illegal’ is a stretch in 95% of them. Generally worst case any evidence gathered would just be inadmissible.

After all, even if not a legal stop/detention, that doesn’t mean they committed a crime by doing it.

But tell me, do you think any of these officers would have struggled to come up with probable cause to detain the driver of a giant banana car on a public roadway? Or any other ‘suspicious’ or ‘weird’ vehicle?

Because I can think of at least 3 California vehicle codes off the top of my head that would likely apply, including CVC 26708, 24008.5, and 5201. And I’m not a cop.

And all you need is an articulable and reasonable suspicion to detain.

Stopping someone to chat (aka they can leave without penalty) is a much lower bar, though I doubt they did that.

And you never answered my question.

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#109
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you, pulling over the banana stand is not the road to death camps. The death camps are.

Roads don’t start at their end. And it didn’t start there in Germany, either banana cars or death camps.

Eh, most roads start where other roads end or meet. The wheel turns, regardless.

Re: Giant Banana Pulled Over: Driver Says Cops Have Stopped Him 100s of Times

#110
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society broadly agrees, enough that it's illegal in the US to stop someone just for "unusual behavior." You have to have an actual concrete reason to suspect someone of a crime. Not that police always follow the law on this.

Not really, in the way you are using it. Only in specific edge cases and definitions, which I’m guessing you don’t know. And calling it ‘illegal’ is a stretch in 95% of them. Generally worst case any evidence gathered would just be inadmissible. After all, even if not a legal stop/detention, that doesn’t mean they committed a crime by doing it. But tell me, do you think any of these officers would have struggled to c…

You've now completely shifted from "unusual behavior is sufficient justification to detain someone and this is necessary for 99% of real traffic stops" to "the police can usually come up with probable cause if they want."

Which I completely agree with. But that's a very different statement.

If a cop saw someone hiding in my bushes at 2AM, that strikes me as reason to think that the person is trespassing if not worse, and would thus justify a further look. It would not be done solely on the basis of "unusual behavior."

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