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Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

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Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#101

Post by reaperducer »

themafia wrote: post #43
cluckindan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t use these sites, they alter archived content and use visitor browsers as a ddos botnet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Archive.today_guidan...

Then I'd have to ask of publishers please don't use subscription oriented paywalls. I'd be happy to pay for an article here and there. I do not want to understand your subscription model, compare benefits between "tiers" of subscriptions, or think about how to cancel when I eventually realize I'm not getting the value I hoped for. This is the price of that dark pattern. These sites wouldn't exist if they acted like p…

Most digital subscriptions to large news organizations are in the order of $5 - $10/month.

If you can't afford 16¢ a day, then you have bigger problems.

If you don't want to pay monthly because you find it inconvenient, well boo hoo. Just do without. The world, and its journalists, don't owe you anything.

I find the exercise of buying a car to be tedious. That doesn't justify me just driving one off the lot without paying.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#102

Post by port11 »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #33
timoth3y wrote: post #21

Palantir is clearly a mind-boggling on-the-nose, but terrible name to those familiar with the book. The Palantiri consistently provided their users technically accurate intelligence that lead to disastrous strategic decisions. Denethor committed suicide out of despair, after a palantir showed him the black fleet approaching, but he did not know that it was actually Aragorn who had captured the fleet and was coming wi…

I've pointed this out before, but there's an interview clip of Alex Karp saying that Trump won the election in a landslide[0]. If you look at the actual numbers, no one, with any idea of mathematics or statistics or even just basic analysis skills, would call Trump's election victory a landslide. It calls into question the fundamental raisin d'etre of Palantir. It makes Palantir look like a pure propaganda tool. Ther…

I don’t know why we keep platforming these people. Go interview a normal person with normal thoughts. Karp is one of the most vile, insensitive, and immoral people in charge of anything tech. Just ignore him and his antics.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#103

Post by pstuart »

mindslight wrote: post #95
close04 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s easy to explain once you realize the real ideology of these people is money. Even if they have other internal beliefs they’ll get buried under the desire to make more money.

Money is just a metric. I'd say their real ideology is power. It's the classic authoritarian delusion that has fueled every "web 2.0" startup, now writ large - it's okay if we centralize power, because we will only ever use the power for good . Of course this completely ignores how power agglomerates in the real world, especially in the presence of the strong Moloch attractor accelerator that is state-orchestrated ca…

Here are some key quotes from the linked article:

   But Karp, Steinberger told me, needed “to find a reason beyond just opportunism and necessity” to embrace Trumpism. His reasoning, however, is so incoherent it seems pretextual.

   Toward the end of the book, Steinberger quotes Karp lambasting the left for failing to adequately address antisemitism, chaos at the border and the threat of Iran. “I’m sick and tired of left-wing people fostering right-wing populist movements because they won’t be adults about these issues,” said Karp. That is perfectly cogent as a centrist critique of progressives. As a justification for aligning with a right-wing populist movement, it’s bizarre.
"Woke" was originally about waking up to the fact that America was built on systemic racism (which is absolutely the case), but was then artfully redefined by the Right as "shrill liberal nonsense" that is designed to be completely vague and amorphous so that it satisfies the desire for "librul tears" and cannot be defended because there's no specific points to defend.

So by stating they are "anti-woke" they just mean "New! Improved! 100% Librul Tears!". It's intellectually fraudulent and just spiteful.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#104

Post by warumdarum »

icantevenhold wrote: post #70
bluefirebrand wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait seriously? I'm pretty sure Tolkien would be furious at the mere idea. He could not have written more thoroughly black and white morality if he tried...

It’s based on a retelling of the story that isn’t as black and white and more based around the idea that technology and progress are good. I haven’t read it but the premise is quite cool. Of course having Thiel as a fan kinda ruins it but I still wanted to read it sometime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

Well if the stories where realistic the shire would overproduce people in 3 generation and then export miserable mercenaries ala afghanistan for the rest of days.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#105

Post by randycupertino »

timoth3y wrote: post #21

Palantir is clearly a mind-boggling on-the-nose, but terrible name to those familiar with the book. The Palantiri consistently provided their users technically accurate intelligence that lead to disastrous strategic decisions. Denethor committed suicide out of despair, after a palantir showed him the black fleet approaching, but he did not know that it was actually Aragorn who had captured the fleet and was coming wi…

> I honestly can't think of a worse name for a company that provides intel for strategic decision making.

Well their motto is basically "Be Evil and Get Rich" so I think the name fits.

Peter Thiel routinely defends Mordor - "they had technology! The rest of the world was just agricultural luddites."

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#106

Post by pdonis »

jltsiren wrote: post #56
pdonis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Aragorn used the information he got from the Palantir of Orthanc to make a correct and very important strategic decision, to take the Paths of the Dead so that he could stop the Corsairs in time to save Minas Tirith. So the lesson is that you have to use the intel you get wisely, or else very bad things will happen. I'm not sure if that makes the name any better for the tool it's applied to, though.

The actual lesson was that you need to be the trueborn king who can claim the palantiri by birthright if you want to use them for good. Even then, it requires great effort. Bad things will happen if anyone else tries to use the palantiri, no matter how great and powerful they are.

> The actual lesson was that you need to be the trueborn king who can claim the palantiri by birthright if you want to use them for good.

Not really. Denethor was the trueborn steward, whose ancestor had been officially appointed by the King, and though it isn't mentioned in the Lord of the Rings, the essay on the Palantiri in Unfinished Tales says that stewards were often deputized to use the Palantiri. So Denethor had the right to use the Palantir of Minas Tirith. But he didn't have the wisdom to realize that Sauron was manipulating what he saw.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#107

Post by pdonis »

close04 wrote: post #80
lukan wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So .. who is the trueborn king today? I believe there is no shortage of aspirants.

Easy. Nobody. The extreme power this gives will corrupt anyone in the real world.

And yet we continue to give people such extreme power in the real world. What kind of sense does that make?

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#108

Post by pdonis »

lukan wrote: post #75
jltsiren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual lesson was that you need to be the trueborn king who can claim the palantiri by birthright if you want to use them for good. Even then, it requires great effort. Bad things will happen if anyone else tries to use the palantiri, no matter how great and powerful they are.

So .. who is the trueborn king today? I believe there is no shortage of aspirants.

> who is the trueborn king today?

Of course there isn't one; the notion of the "rightful king" in Middle-Earth does not have a real world counterpart.

Tolkien might have believed it did, since he was a Catholic and might have believed in some version of the divine right of kings that the church supported for many centuries. But even then, the power the "rightful king" has in Middle-Earth is very limited. There is no hint that Aragorn, once he becomes King, micromanages everything in Gondor or makes rules by royal decree about everything, or even any very great number of things. The only actual official acts of his that are described are making peace with the Haradrim and the Easterlings, giving Sauron's freed servants the lands about Lake Nurnen, and pronouncing judgments of particular cases, of which Beregond's is the last. He certainly doesn't seem to be dictating what everyone in Gondor should do in their daily lives. Nor is there any hint that previous Kings did any such thing.

And even Tolkien's real world attitudes weren't necessarily monarchist. In a letter to his son, he wrote:

"The most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity..."

If this espouses any kind of political view, it's libertarianism.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#109

Post by jltsiren »

pdonis wrote: post #106
jltsiren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual lesson was that you need to be the trueborn king who can claim the palantiri by birthright if you want to use them for good. Even then, it requires great effort. Bad things will happen if anyone else tries to use the palantiri, no matter how great and powerful they are.

> The actual lesson was that you need to be the trueborn king who can claim the palantiri by birthright if you want to use them for good. Not really. Denethor was the trueborn steward, whose ancestor had been officially appointed by the King, and though it isn't mentioned in the Lord of the Rings, the essay on the Palantiri in Unfinished Tales says that stewards were often deputized to use the Palantiri. So Denethor…

Denethor is described as wise and strong-willed (unlike the caricature seen in the movies). He knows Sauron is trying to manipulate him, but he believes his strength and legitimacy will let him prevail. It's the same belief Aragorn has, and it's mostly correct. Denethor benefits greatly from the information gained using the palantir. But because his claim is weaker than Aragorn's and because he keeps using it repeatedly over the decades, it eventually corrupts him and leads him to his doom.

Re: Palantir loses legal challenge against Swiss investigative magazine

#110

Post by pdonis »

jltsiren wrote: post #109
pdonis wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The actual lesson was that you need to be the trueborn king who can claim the palantiri by birthright if you want to use them for good. Not really. Denethor was the trueborn steward, whose ancestor had been officially appointed by the King, and though it isn't mentioned in the Lord of the Rings, the essay on the Palantiri in Unfinished Tales says that stewards were often deputized to use the Palantiri. So Denethor…

Denethor is described as wise and strong-willed (unlike the caricature seen in the movies). He knows Sauron is trying to manipulate him, but he believes his strength and legitimacy will let him prevail. It's the same belief Aragorn has, and it's mostly correct. Denethor benefits greatly from the information gained using the palantir. But because his claim is weaker than Aragorn's and because he keeps using it repeate…

> unlike the caricature seen in the movies

I agree that the movie portrayal was totally unlike the Denethor in the books.

> He knows Sauron is trying to manipulate him

To some extent, yes. But I'm not sure he fully realizes what's going on. For example, he sees the fleet with black sails coming up Anduin--but he didn't see any of the events that led to that fleet being taken over by Aragorn and his followers? He could have.

> because his claim is weaker than Aragorn's

I don't think this is given as a cause of Denethor's doom in the books.

> because he keeps using it repeatedly over the decades

This is mentioned in the books, yes.

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